Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Carabop
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Hi carabop;
I like those also. but the big bonus is an airmail stamp, with a airplane as the main design, and a cancel also with a airplane.
My most favorite is the US cancel of a Jenny bi-plane and the slogan "Use Airmail
Saves Time"
I just a couple of days ago, found a similar cancel, but from Canada #C8, with a slogan
"Save Time"
(airplane outline)
"Use Air Mail"
the main difference on this cancel is that it is a single wing aircraft.
Some collectors specialize in these and other types of slogan cancels. I believe that they are popular because the Jenny bi-plane for instance has about 8-10 varieties, which are fairly easy to tell apart.
Thanks for posting, it's nice to know there are others that like those stamps too. 
Just stampin'....
TuskenRaider
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One of my favorites.
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Do you have any airmail stamp, with a airplane as the main design, and a cancel also with a airplane? I don't have any but would love to see some.
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Two covers with airplanes in the cancelation. One from Belgium and the other from Argentina.
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If you like early airmails...check out the DC-2 flights between the Netherlands and the Dutch East Indies .
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That is a nice cover philb. I have only seen a set of those stamps on the internet and never in front of me. Beautiful stamp. My Dutch is not very good but on the right I think it says "To the central administration of the Netherland Indies Post, Telegraph and Telephone service in Bandong."
I have two from Germany I think you will like. The Zeppelin letter is not in very good condition, but I still like the cancelation.
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Manfred, Yes i like the postmark on the zeppelin ...South America flight...i have more common ones Germany to the United States. I would like to show this cover that i like with the military stamp good for letter or parcel.
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This thread is so cool. As a tour guide/lecturer/docent at the EAA Aviation Museum in Oshkosh, I spend my days hanging around the JN4 "Jenny" explaining to the school children the history of the aircraft and I always mention the plane is most famous for the upside down Jenny stamp. Perhaps motivating them to be fascinated with both aviation and stamp collecting. Again, thanks for the thread.
The Rev.
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Carabop,
I have this one from China. An airmail stamp, with a plane on the stamp, and a plane in the cancellation. Enjoy!
Linus
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06:49:01pm
My two favourite airplane covers:
Roy
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Not on cover, but here are my favorite airmails. (In fact, my favorite stamps of all time.)
Greece C1-C4. To me, this is an amazing and charming design for 1926.
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The G-EAOU (God Elp All Of Us) Vickers Vimy bomber that Ross Smith piloted from England to Australia in 1919. Around 100 pieces of mail were carried on the flight. This was the first successful flight from England to Australia. The acting Prime Minister of Australia, Mr. Watt, put up a 10,000 pound prize on March 20, 1919 to the first to do so - "with a view to stimulating aerial activity." It was a flight filled with incident and potential disaster, but, miraculously, was completed in time to win the award.
This stamp is a fake. And even the real stamp is not a stamp, but rather a Cinderella - and very expensive indeed.
Cheers,
Wine
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A Set from Estonia,1924.
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Complete sheet from Germany, airmail stamp from 1919. Could also be used on regular mail.
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Carabop,
A plane on the stamp and a plane in the cancellation.
Linus
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Miscellaneous airmail overprints, including another of the New Guinea stamps:
I generally don't collect overprints, but these are quite attractive and interesting.
Bob
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Some more cancels with planes.
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I've always like U.S. C11, "Beacon on Rocky Mountains," especially with the cancellation on this one:
Here's the same cancellation on a pair of "Chicago Century of Progress" commemorative:
I've always wondered if there are varieties of this cancellation, but after looking at several examples I haven't found any. The various degrees of inking seem to create "varieties".
Bob
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More airplane cancellations
I found these stamps, separated, in a glassine envelope that I purchased:
"GIVE WINGS TO YOUR MAIL":
At first glance, the airplanes in these Canadian "SAVE TIME/USE AIRMAIL" slogan cancellations look similar, but they're quite different; note that the fonts are also different, and the "SAVE TIME" on the stamp at the right is curved:
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Got these last Week. When I saw them I had to have them.
Luxemburg 1931,Airmail stamps. Breguet over the city of Luxemburg and the Alzette valley.
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"The G-EAOU (God Elp All Of Us) Vickers Vimy bomber that Ross Smith piloted from England to Australia in 1919. Around 100 pieces of mail were carried on the flight. This was the first successful flight from England to Australia. The acting Prime Minister of Australia, Mr. Watt, put up a 10,000 pound prize on March 20, 1919 to the first to do so - "with a view to stimulating aerial activity." It was a flight filled with incident and potential disaster, but, miraculously, was completed in time to win the award.
This stamp is a fake. And even the real stamp is not a stamp, but rather a Cinderella - and very expensive indeed.
Cheers,
Wine"
The facsimile has no watermark, and it is Australia's most expensive Cinderella; last time I saw one sold on cover was about $20,000, it also isn't the most popular; even though its history is of great historical importance it is avoided by many collectors who can afford it as being too expensive for a label.
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France C1
The French used the airplane silhouette also on a number of stamps issued in the colonies.
But mostly in the design of the stamp. The o/p is rarer, and alas subject to counterfeiting.
Incidentally, this one is counterfeit. 
(very crudely...look at that last e!)
rrr...
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Dad had found (in the 1960s?) a large number of 1930s era covers. Many looked like they'd been lying in the street during rush hour and were discarded. This one reads, SAVE TIME USE AIR MAIL and was postmarked in Vancouver, BC, Canada on December 21, 1938. It contains a Christmas greeting card and a lengthy personal note.
This second example has the same cancellation message, but with a different design. It was mailed in 1940 from Bell, Gouinlock & Co., Ltd. in Toronto, Ontario, Canada to a Bank in Richmond, Indiana.
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Again some stamps that I just received. A set from Honduras 1929. Overprints for the first flight from Honduras to New York. This flight however never took place and apparently these stamps were never used on airmail letters.?.
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From my WW block collection, a flying boat with a railway cancel? Think about it...
Linus
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And here's an Irish paquetbot airmail cover posted from the United States Lines ocean liner, S.S. America! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, or, er, your rudder!
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You know, Bob, I think the sender is the writer William Saroyan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Saroyan
Laurence Pollinger (the c/o in the return address) was a literary agent in London. His agency in still in business"
http://www.pollingerltd.com/history/index.htm
And the recipient was an attorney and literary agent in New York, who represented Saroyan, among others:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/21/business/paul-gitlin-83-pioneering-literary-agent-to-stars.html
So, it all triangulates.
A nice cover, paqueboat and all!!
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Wait --
I was just googling to find images of the US/Soviet joint issue for the Saroyan stamp, and it took me to *your* page -- lol!
http://www.ephemeraltreasures.net/william-saroyan-part-1.html
http://www.ephemeraltreasures.net/william-saroyan-part-2.html
So I guess you already knew about it! 
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I did know about it! Thank you for the plug for my web page. 
As I explain on that web page, I purchased the cover from Roy Lingen several years ago. I bought it because I didn't have any Irish airmail stamps on cover. Only after I received it did I realize who the sender was. Serendipitously, Saroyan was already one of my favourite American authors!
Bob
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France, American Legion in Paris. Nice article on Wikipedia in German and English.
Also on you tube.
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Have been working on my Aviation Pioneers presentation for the next Philatelic Gathering (April 27), so I was surfing a SOR Search of "aviation" for inspiration. Saw Bob's posting above, wondering if there were variations of the Curtiss JN-4 (Jenny) "Airmail Saves Time" cancellation. Collectors of early FAM covers will, no doubt, recall that there was a Spanish version of this cancellation:
Completely different design than the one Bob shows, but contemporary in time, and with the same message. Mine is a partial strike, but not smudged, and is much better than the other one I have in my collection.
And, when I was finding the cover above, I noticed the one below on the next page in my album, and chose to display it here, since this subject has evolved into a very worthy 'Planes in Cancellations' theme...
Haven't done any research on it yet, I was hooked by the interesting cancellation, the agent's signature, the early first flight date, and the low price.
Enjoy!
-Paul
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I wonder if CARABOB was aware of the amount of stamps or covers showing planes, when she started this post way back in 2016, A great topic which can turn into a huge collection on its own,covering numerous countries. A few more to keep it going.
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And a few covers and card.
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Hey Paul/pigdoc,
If you ever want to sell or trade that US C11 cover above,
I would love to have it in my C11 cover collection!
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Just saw this on Colnet. This year's, 2019, stamp to add to my DC-3 collection although I'm guessing it's a DC-2. It's part of a miniature sheet. (KLM was an early adopter of Douglas airliners in Europe.)
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Off the top of my head I would say a DC-4 or DC-6. I will plump for the former I think.
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@snowy12: The Dutch stamp does show a DC-2, and KLM was the first airline in Europe to fly Douglas airliners. Its first purchase was a DC-2, which it named the Uiver (Old Dutch for”stork”) and entered in the 1934 MacRobertson International Air Race between London and Melbourne.The Uiver placed first in the handicap portion of the race and and showed that air transport of cargo and passengers was practical and potentially lucrative. The DC-2 is often said to be the world!s first modern airliner.
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Danny,
I saw this postcard while strolling through a junk curio shop while on my lunch break and remembered your post about your DC-3 collection. I am unsure whether this is a DC-1, DC-2 or DC-3. Can you tell just from a basic image?
The guy has a pencil mark price written on it of $8.00 and his booth number. I think the $8.00 price is probably on the low side if offered by a dealer. I see high interest postally used cards like this offered for $20.00 all day long. I picked it up for $4.00.
Poignant note from Dad to son on the card. How do you like the way he asks, "How would you like to fly out here in one of these?". Hahaha. If he had lived to see a Boeing 747.
If you send me a private message I will send it to you at no cost.
Have a great week.
-Ernie
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@ernieinjax:
There are several differences between the DC-2 and the DC-3:
• The planes in the foreground and background are DC-3s. The others are DC-2s.
• In cross section, the fuselages of the two planes are different:
• The DC-2 has two landing lights located in the nose. The DC-3's landing lights are outboard of the engines on the leading edg of the wings.
• The DC3 has a dorsal fillet added to the fin to improve stability. The DC-2 has no dorsal filet.
• Overall, the DC-3 appears a bit more "plump" than the DC-2.
The DC-2, not surprisingly, followed the DC-1, a plane designed by Donald Douglas to meet the needs of TWA — then Trans-Western Airlines — for its routes in the western U.S., and to compete with United Airlines, which was flying the Boeing 247. In a sweetheart deal, Boeing had agreed to sell the 247 only to United Airlines, so TWA had to search elsewhere for a plane that met their needs. The DC-1 was that plane: it could take off on only one engine and climb to 10,000 feet, had innovative variable pitch propellers for greater fuel efficiency and flaps for lower landing speeds, greater safety, and the ability to land on short runways.
There was only one DC-1. The DC-2s that TWA ordered was slightly longer, but otherwise was a DC-1. This unused real-photo postcard pictures the DC-1; the first DC-2 to be sold outside the U.S. went to KLM Airlines, which probably explains the Dutch caption.
Bob
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Ernie that's is a beautiful and stunning postcard.
I think the first three DCs are best looked at as the same plane. The DC-1 as the prototype, the DC-2 as mark 1 and the DC-3 as Mark 2. When we see how the many aircraft models are still Being 737s it makes sense.
As Bob has written the DC-2 was basically the production run of the DC-1 prototype. Also as Bob says the DC-3 was based on the DC-2 but with a wider cabin. There was a very good reason for this. C.R. Smith, head of American Airlines, spent over $300 on a long-distance two hour phone call to Donald Douglas. He needed a replacement for his Curtiss T-32 Condor IIs which had sleeping berths for passengers crossing the North American continent on night flights. He was probably worried that TWA's daytime DC-2 service would eat into his market. The problem for him was that he couldn't fit sleeping berths on both sides of the cabin into the DC-2s 66 inch cabin width. He had to persuade Douglas to increase the width and the DC-3 ended up with 92 inches.
The Curtiss T-32 Condor
Just on a side note, when Shirley Temple sings about "on the good ship Lollipop" she actually singing about an American Airlines DC-2, not a ship on sea.
Shirley Temple
C R Smith's sponsorship of the DC-3 design explains why the DC-3 was originally called the DST (Douglas Sleeper Transport). Airlines soon found that the DC-3 made more economic sense with more seats. The eighth plane off the production line had the 14-16 sleeping berths replaced with 21 seats. DC-3s would soon be offering 32 seats against the DC-2s 14 seats.
The Douglas DST
C R Smith ordered 10 DSTs at $79,500 each in July 1935 during the Great Depression. The money came from the US Governments Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC). FDR had widened the RFC's remit so it covered more than bad banks under his New Deal.
Today we not only see various governments financing their aircraft industries, we also see the airlines competing on who has the best sleeping berths on long distance flights.
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I've been collecting aircraft on stamps and covers for several years now. More covers these days than stamps. Here is a recent acquisition I bought on eBay. Bidding was competitive for this one, but I got it with an esnipe bid that was considerably more than what I usually pay for a cover. It is, however, a dramatic cover that I think is worth the price. I have not seen one like it before. I'm pleased to add it to my collection.
While I have not yet written up the cover, I am presently identifying the aircraft as a Lockheed 8 "Sirius." The rudder is not quite right, but that may be the artists lack of attention to detail. I know there are a several knowledgeable aircraft-on-stamps collectors on this forum, so, if anyone has a more accurate ID for this airplane I would be pleased to have it before I put the cover in my album.
FF
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Japan 1919 first trial flight
High value Sakura C22 & 23 - lots of Fakes
1929-34 Sakura A1-5 Lake Ashinoko
1952 AIRMAIL Mt.Tateyama Sakura A16-A21
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My purpose for posting this S/S is to ask if any Aircraft on Stamps collectors recognize the make and model of the airplane depicted on this sheet.
It may be named in a catalog, but I don't have a current Scott's or a second edition SG Collect Aircraft on Stamps catalog.
It may be a Phoenix D III (Austrian design)? Any help appreciated!
FF
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Scott does not specify the type. My guess is that it is a Brandenburg Hansa C1 which was used on the first regular international airmail service. It could be a Phonix C1, but the DIII was a single seat Fighter. Another choice is the LVG C VI which made the first airmail runs between Berlin and Weimar in 1919. The first day notes issued with the stamp don't mention the type but they do reference the Weimar - Berlin service. Couple of photos of the C VI here
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Thanks, nlroberts, for your suggestions and link. I'm at the APS show in Omaha, but will check each possibility you mention when home again.
Looks like a radiator in front of the front cockpit. That should be a help, but haven't seen a photo yet that shows one there.
FF
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The trick is that most of these aircraft were rebuilt/modified military aircraft. A lot of them appear in slightly different configurations if you study the various photos. Another issue is that the stamp may be an artists interpretation and not strictly accurate to any specific model. The AEG j.ii is a good example of variants. If you look at this model kit bashing article here , this is quite different from say this variant here with different engine exhaust and fuselage.
Finally each of these aircraft were not only built by the original manufacturer but were licensed to other manufacturers. For example Phonix built variants of the brandenburg hansa and LVG if i recall. The more i look at it I think the LVG V VI or variant seems the closest silhoutette. All these models were originally recon or general purpose aircraft.
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" The more I look at it I think the LVG V VI or variant seems the closest silhoutette."
Hi nlroberts:
I've checked some images of the aircraft you mentioned on the internet back in my motel room and, yes, I agree, the LVG models seem the closest to the s/s image. I'll probably go with it in my write-up for this sheet, with a caveat that the aircraft's identification is a "most likely" choice. Most people wouldn't care anyway, but I do and, for me, part of the fun in collecting aircraft on stamps and covers is identifying the aircraft.
Again, many thanks for your help.
Don (FF)
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Hello,
A few stamps of Free State Danzig 1920-24
and the World's first (?) air post stamp
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Once again I am looking for help with identifying an aircraft, this time in a cachet from the WW II period. The airplane on the cover below looks like a Curtiss, but it is not a Seamew because the wingtips are not turned up. A Curtiss Model 84, SB2C Helldiver on floats? A Brewster Buccaneer? I think the rear cabin looks too short to be Brewster. Any comments will be appreciated.
FF
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Further to previous discussions about the DC series of airliners, here are three postcards from my collection:
A real-photo postcard of a DST (not the small rectangular windows for the sleeping berths above each passenger window:
A cutaway view of the DST's interior:
And a photo of passengers getting reading for bed:
Hmmm.... I wonder how many DST passengers were able to join the Mile High Club? 
Bob
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A fascinating if tragic wartime DC-3 drama emerged from the death of movie actor Carole Lombard, who perished on a TWA DC-3 flight from Las Vegas to Los Angeles in 1942. I recommend a recent book about the crash, titled Fireball: Carole Lombard and the Mystery of Flight 3.
Bob
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"It looks like a Kingfisher Scout Plane."
Thanks Michael. I think you are right. A catapult launched Kingfisher. I had forgotten about the Vought OS2U.
Don
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"Hmmm.... I wonder how many DST passengers were able to join the Mile High Club? "
Oh my, surely not!
FF
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A hidden story in a stamp.
As I am always looking for new material for my DC-3 collection I was pleased to see Spain issuing this stamp a bit earlier in the year. It celebrates a hundred years of air transport in Spain. The background B&W images is a DC-3, or to be more specific the military version, a C-47. I haven't bought one yet and this image is off Delcampe.
Now where it gets interesting is the aircraft registration is clearly visible, EC-ABL. A check on the number brought up a rather strange story. We have to remember that the fascist leader of Spain during WW2, General Franco, was closely allied to the Axis powers. Both Germany and Italy had helped him defeat the republicans in the civil war.
EC-ABL was one of three DC-3s belonging to the US 12th Air Force carrying US paratroopers from the UK to Oran in Algeria. This was on the 8th November 1942 and would have been in support of Operation Torch, the US seaborne landings in North Africa.
Unfortunately the planes running short of fuel had to make emergency landings in what they thought was Algeria. I'm not sure if for the men it was that unfortunate that they actually landed in Spanish controlled Morocco. They weren't going to be shot at anyway.
Now Franco was a wily old bird and by late 1942 he was no longer certain that Hitler was a real winner. He had supplied volunteers to fight against the Russians, but he had held off officially joining in with his friends. The US military personnel were repatriated fairly quickly via Gibraltar. The three interned aircraft were purchased by Spain from the US the following year for $100,000 each and ended up being part of the Iberia fleet.
A whole story from the registration number shown on a 2019 postage stamp. What more could you ask for?
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09:32:59am
I just found this unused postcard tucked away in my stock. Thought you might enjoy seeing it.
Roy
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Thanks Roy, the cockpit looks so cramped by today's standards. When I was being ferried down into the Libyan dessert the pilots seldom closed the door so they could see what their passengers (us) were up to. Danny
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Cleaning up my fathers house after his recent passing and found some books and papers that the plane he flew in WWII was a “Lancaster”. Then I found this Canadian stamp.
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05:43:37pm
Airplanes take me back to the 1960's. I was a collector even back then. Jello issued round plastic wheels with pictures of cars and airplanes in them. There were 200 of each and the cars came first, early 60's I think. When you had the set you could send away 25 cents for holders very similar to poker chip holders. They also sent a book with each set - either French or English depending on what you asked for. I still have my complete sets in holder with books. We couldn't eat that much Jello so I had a route around the area - people would save the wheels for me. Does that ring a bell with anyone else out there?
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I'm stumped on identifying the aircraft on this 1932 first-flight from Elk City, Oklahoma and hoping that someone recognizes it. It somewhat resembles an Armstrong Whitworth design, but the enclosed pilot cabin and engines aren't right. A composite drawing, perhaps?
Thanks.
Don FF
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FF - Looks like an artist creation to me, as I have never seen a plane like that one.
Here is a cover I bought at Snowpex, earlier this year, for my WW block collection, just because I liked it.
Linus
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Biplanes
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More biplanes
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Seaplane
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Spirit of Saint Louis
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From my Aircraft on Covers Collection, a 1932 air show cover with a watercolor add-on cachet depicting what was probably meant to be a de Havilland DH-4 in flight. The rudder and cowling don't look quite like a DH-4's, but the rest of the airplane is a close approximation.
FF
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A few years ago I spent a bundle on this First Flight Cover, signed by and flown by the French "Lindbergh," Jean Mermoz, on the first official airmail flight, in 1929, over the Andes between Buenos Aires and Santiago, Chile:
Mermoz gained fame as a pioneer of Trans-Atlantic mail service from Europe to South America and within South America.
Ever since obtaining that cover, I've been looking for an FFC flown on the first official airmail flight from Santiago to Buenos Aires. And a few weeks ago I found one on HipStamp! It too was flown by Mermoz, s few days after the Buenos Aires-Santiago flight:
Mermoz flew both flights in a Potez-25 biplane, illustrated on this French commemorative issued in 1997:
My search for a Santiago-Buenos Aires cover yielded a surprise, posted a year before the Mermoz flights:
It wouldn't be much to write home about, except for its provenance:
• While it's not an FFC, it is a cover that was carried on a flight made to explore possible airmail routes over the Andes. The address makes sense because the cover was flown in a Ryan aircraft (I don't yet know what model); Ryan was hoping that its aircraft would be purchased for airmail services in South America.
• And the pilot, who would become even better known than Mermoz? Jimmie Doolittle, who less than a year later would make the world's first "blind" flight, relying completely on instruments and radio signals from take off to landing. Then, in the Second World War, he would plan and lead the U.S.'s first attack on Japan.
Bob
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Can not leave behind :
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The next stamps are not that common for most of you, but interesting :
HALBAMTLICHE FLUGMARKEN
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Just received this beauty:
I was inspired to add it to my collection after reading the book: Flying the Andes, the Story of Pan-American Grace Airways. El Inter-Americano DC-6 service to Buenos Aires, Argentina was inaugurated on October 11, 1947. The card has a Buenos Aires cancellation, January 23, 1953. Panagra had a reputation for some of the most luxurious air travel that could be obtained.
From the book:
"On September 11, 1952, the conversion of the DC-6s to the new engines and propellers was completed. The ambitious program had taken just over a year, and had cost $600,000 (more than $6 million in today's dollars!). The type R-2800 CB-16 Pratt & Whitney engines combined with the Hamilton Hi-Activity propellers gave Panagra the fastest civil air transport in regular daily scheduled service anywhere in the world. With upgraded engines, the Miami to Buenos Aires schedule speeded up. The "Fiesta Lounge" flights of the El Inter Americano route now took just short of eighteen hours of flying time. The first day of El Inter Americano's daylight flights from Miami to Lima, Captain Fritz Sterling set a new speed record going the other direction, flying between Lima and Panama with Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt aboard. By December 11 the service had established such a standard that the very first Frye Trophy, one of aviation's most prestigious awards, went to Panagra for its "Fiesta Lounge" service on El Inter Americano. The service was lauded as the fastest passenger service on a regularly scheduled run operated by a United States airline. Jack Frye himself, a well-known figure in aviation for many years, and then-president of Trans-World Airlines (TWA), presented the trophy to Douglas Campbell in a ceremony at New York's "21" Club."
The addressee on the card is located about 6 miles from where I live!
The seller owns an antique shop about 50 miles from me, in Columbia, PA, and the business card he enclosed invited me to visit his Ephemera Room. {Homer mode} Mmmm, pork chops...{/Homer mode}
-Paul
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For you airplane buffs...
I found this in my father's shed after he died, very carefully wrapped. Unbelievably great condition (to me at least).
He once told me he had an old Spitfire propellor that he brought home after the war (but I'm skeptical about this).
It is now hanging in my basement "stamp room".
Any ideas what type of airplane it is from?
Thanks, Dave.
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Looks like it's New, Original Stock (NOS).
"Brought home after the war"?
Odds are it's for a de Havilland Moth (biplane trainer), or something of the sort...
Should be a number on it somewhere, maybe stamped into the face of the hub.
How long is it?
Props for small (60-70hp) engines are around 6 feet long.
Looks like it's made of birch, a common wood species used for propellers.
Here is a site with some technical info to get you started:
Propellerman
-Paul
PS, I just found this image at Propellerman's site:
It seems likely to me that your propeller might be a "wallmount" for display only.
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Heres my contribution to planes...i will post a picture of the plane on the back of this..lets see if it can be real or imagined.
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Lets see if this bares any resemblance to a real plane !
or is as fake as the stamps on the front.
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01:48:03pm
It is a slightly stylized Ford Trimotor.
Roy
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Thanks, i was a bit confused by the three engines.
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Interesting envelope, phil!
I think Scott shows that stamp was only issued in the rose red 6c denomination (C7), on June 4, 1930. So the other denominations are fantasies? The drawings appear faithful to the actual stamp's design.
Anyway, here's a photo of the Ford Tri-motor in Guatemala City, 1933:
Guatemala City was an intermediate stop between Panama and Mexico City. Pan Am planes would only fly as far south as Panama, and Panagra would only fly as far north as Panama. There, passengers transferred from one airline to another, as the two airlines avoided deliberate competition with each other.
NC9688 was built in May, 1929 and after Pan Am was done with her, she was exported to Mexico in November, 1934. She crashed on the San Martin volcano in March, 1940.
-Paul
PS, here's a high-quality inflight video from a ride on a Trimotor, captured at the 2021 EAA AirVenture, in Osh Kosh, Wisconsin:
Ford Tri-motor
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OPC (Obligatory Philatelic Content). Here's a couple of covers with stamps featuring the Ford Tri-motor:
I don't have Guatemala C7 on cover!
(Add it to the Wish List)
-Paul
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Paul, i have a few...but they are part of my personal collection...those i could not part with. phil
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This is the backside of the cover.
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Ford Trimotor photographs my father took in 1929, when he was 18, on a road trip to Cleveland from Hornell, New York to see an air show:
The Ford Trimotor is unusual in many respects, but one of the most surprising to me is its flight control surfaces, which were controlled through cables that were partially exposed on the outside of the airplane. This is a cropped version of the photo above; the cables and the short levers they are attached to are shown inside the blue oval:
There are some excellent photos of the control cables at the Aviation Smiles website.
The development of the Ford Trimotor is interesting. From Wikipedia:
"The aircraft resembled the Fokker F.VII Trimotor (except for being all-metal which Henry Ford claimed made it 'the safest airliner around'). Its fuselage and wings followed a design pioneered by Junkers4 during World War I with the Junkers J.I and used postwar in a series of airliners starting with the Junkers F.13 low-wing monoplane of 1920 of which a number were exported to the US, the Junkers K 16 high-wing airliner of 1921, and the Junkers G 24 trimotor of 1924. All of these were constructed of aluminum alloy, which was corrugated for added stiffness, although the resulting drag reduced its overall performance. So similar were the designs that Junkers sued and won when Ford attempted to export an aircraft to Europe. In 1930, Ford countersued in Prague, and despite the possibility of anti-German sentiment, was decisively defeated a second time, with the court finding that Ford had infringed upon Junkers' patents."
A post to the The Straight Dope Message Boardseems to confirm a Ford Trimotor story I have read before:
"The Fokker F7A looks like a Ford Tri-Motor. More correctly, the Ford looks like the Fokker.
The story goes that Richard Byrd et al flew a Fokker F7 to the north pole in 1926. After returning, he toured the world, and stopped at Dearborn Field in Detroit - owned of course by Henry Ford. Ford offered his own hangar to safeguard the Fokker.
While Byrd and his party were being entertained, Ford engineers worked through the night to measure, copy, and reverse-engineer the entire plane.
Ford had previously purchased the Stout airplane co. and modified one of its models with 3 engines, but it wasn’t until after the Fokker visit that the Tri-Motor took its final form.
I first heard this in about 1978 from an old flight instructor of mine. It’s repeated here and there on the internet, but no one knows for sure"
Industrial espionage committed by Henry Ford? Unbelievable! Just because he was a racist jerk who killed the trolley industry doesn't mean that he would stoop that low!
This is my only Fort Trimotor postcard, but it's a good one, published by the Ford Motor Company as a sales brochure, the text of which is shown in a larger version below:
Note the wheel spats, which were an intermediate step between fixed landing gear, which produced great drag, and retractible landing gear, which reduced landing-gear drag to almost nothing in the DC-1/2/3, and none at all in later aircraft with fully retractible landing gear.
Here's an enlarged, cropped version of the comments on the left side of the observe side of the postcard; note that the message invites prospective buyers to ask for a price quote:
Happy flying, virtually, which is the best way to fly these days, unless you happen to fly your own plane.
Bob
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Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about the differences between the Douglas DC-2 and DC-3 airliners. Here's a summary of the identifying features (and histories) about all of Douglas's propeller-driven* airliners, from the DC-1 through the DC-7.
Bob
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Bob,
Not sure if it was intentional, but I got a big kick out of your use of a "blue oval" to highlight the cable features of that Ford tri-motor!!!!
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@Partsguy
!!! That's funny. I'd never heard of Ford's "Blue Oval" before I posted that picture. My choice of blue was purely, well — almost! — arbitrary. I started to use red, and then I thought, "No, blue. Blue is what the sky is. Airplanes fly in the sky. I'll use a blue oval!" There's probably a rock group called "Blue Oval," to
o.
boB
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This is one of my favorite airmail covers!
December 31 (hey that's today!) cancel in San Francisco and January 1 cancel in Chicago. It was delivered in Ardmore, PA on January 2nd.
Not bad service for 1933 airmail over a holiday weekend! Dec 31 was a Saturday, Jan 1 was a Sunday.
This is the stuff you occasionally find in those huge boxes of old covers!
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Really like this cover. First flight from Atlanta Ga. Dec 1 1928. To New York arriving on
Dec 2.
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i always liked this stamp...when i was discharged from the service in 1962 and was "working" in Manhattan there were stamp storefronts on every block in midtown...airmail covers with what i call the beacon stamp were selling for a buck apiece which was affordable on $67.00 a week. This one with the new 5 cent rate mailed in Denver August 1 arrived in Pittsurgh on August 2nd.
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The Shirley Temple movie was "Bright Eyes" from 1934. Many years ago when my daughters were young, they had a Shirley Temple moviethon on TV. Long after they lost interest and walked away I kept watching, because this movie has amazing footage of an airport of the day and planes, both field and interior shots! Well worth pulling up and watching!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Eyes_(1934_film)
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Here's the full movie, on youtube:
Bright Eyes movie
It's colorized, and image quality is not great, but...
At the very beginning, there's some footage of a Curtiss Condor mail plane. The main airport scene with Shirley Temple starts at about 31 minutes in. You get nice interior, cockpit, and side view of NC-14274, an American Airlines DC-2 which was delivered in November, 1934. This aircraft crashed in a swamp in Arkansas in January, 1936.
Thanks, Tom!
-Paul
PS, here's a nice wikipedia page on the airport featured in Bright Eyes:
Grand Central Airport
PPS, the interior of the DC-2 in the movie was a mock-up, a set. Not surprising, as it would be difficult to get the scene shot inside an actual fuselage. However, the accuracy of the mock-up was notable.
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Another interesting old 1930s movie for spotting then current scenes, "Employees' Entrance". It's set in a New York City department store in 1933. Scenes are in places like the appliance department, with ice boxes and the first refrigerators with the compressor on the top. There are also street scenes and a ride on a NYC Double Decker bus!
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Moderator note - This thread is getting slower to load due to all the images. At some point, please consider starting a new thread.
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One of my favorite Airmail covers in my collection. I call it "Shot Down". I believe the postal clerk was responding to the request below??
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I bought this from a Singapore dealer a couple of weeks ago. It's one of the postcards that Scandinavian Airlines gave out to passengers to post back from their destination. This one was sent back from Bangkok in 1949. The plane is a Douglas DC6. My first thought was it was nice to have the card with Danish stamps also showing the DC6. Of course that's wrong. The 1943 stamps show the last of the two Focke-Wulf Fw200 Condors that Danish Airlines had acquired in 1938. The big 4-engine low wing airliner was a bit before its time in some ways.
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Just this last week I discovered something that was totally new to me regarding aircraft history. You can find on various stamps the DC-3/C-47s supplied to Britain during the war were called Dakotas by the British and Commonwealth military. There are various theories for why this was so. What I didn't know was that a RAF squadron in India was flying DC-2s in 1941 which had originally been requisitioned and converted by the US military from their civilian operators. These DC-2s were also referred to as Dakotas. I found this out watching a YouTube video about David Lord, a pilot who won Britain's top military decoration, the Victoria Cross (VC) who died flying a DC-3 at Arnhem. He had previously been flying those DC-2s in India. Here's a link to his story:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lord ...
I doubt there is philatelic output showing these RAF DC-2s, but please do tell me if you know of anything.
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12:28:22am
I was online today and bought a few airmail and regular USA stamps with airplane theme. Looking forward to receiving them. I enjoy airmails with planes on them because that is what true airmail was. Now it all goes by air.
Carabop
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re: Planes
Hi carabop;
I like those also. but the big bonus is an airmail stamp, with a airplane as the main design, and a cancel also with a airplane.
My most favorite is the US cancel of a Jenny bi-plane and the slogan "Use Airmail
Saves Time"
I just a couple of days ago, found a similar cancel, but from Canada #C8, with a slogan
"Save Time"
(airplane outline)
"Use Air Mail"
the main difference on this cancel is that it is a single wing aircraft.
Some collectors specialize in these and other types of slogan cancels. I believe that they are popular because the Jenny bi-plane for instance has about 8-10 varieties, which are fairly easy to tell apart.
Thanks for posting, it's nice to know there are others that like those stamps too.
Just stampin'....
TuskenRaider
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10:15:55pm
re: Planes
Do you have any airmail stamp, with a airplane as the main design, and a cancel also with a airplane? I don't have any but would love to see some.
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Two covers with airplanes in the cancelation. One from Belgium and the other from Argentina.
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If you like early airmails...check out the DC-2 flights between the Netherlands and the Dutch East Indies .
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That is a nice cover philb. I have only seen a set of those stamps on the internet and never in front of me. Beautiful stamp. My Dutch is not very good but on the right I think it says "To the central administration of the Netherland Indies Post, Telegraph and Telephone service in Bandong."
I have two from Germany I think you will like. The Zeppelin letter is not in very good condition, but I still like the cancelation.
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Manfred, Yes i like the postmark on the zeppelin ...South America flight...i have more common ones Germany to the United States. I would like to show this cover that i like with the military stamp good for letter or parcel.
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This thread is so cool. As a tour guide/lecturer/docent at the EAA Aviation Museum in Oshkosh, I spend my days hanging around the JN4 "Jenny" explaining to the school children the history of the aircraft and I always mention the plane is most famous for the upside down Jenny stamp. Perhaps motivating them to be fascinated with both aviation and stamp collecting. Again, thanks for the thread.
The Rev.
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Carabop,
I have this one from China. An airmail stamp, with a plane on the stamp, and a plane in the cancellation. Enjoy!
Linus
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
16 Feb 2017
06:49:01pm
re: Planes
My two favourite airplane covers:
Roy
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Not on cover, but here are my favorite airmails. (In fact, my favorite stamps of all time.)
Greece C1-C4. To me, this is an amazing and charming design for 1926.
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The G-EAOU (God Elp All Of Us) Vickers Vimy bomber that Ross Smith piloted from England to Australia in 1919. Around 100 pieces of mail were carried on the flight. This was the first successful flight from England to Australia. The acting Prime Minister of Australia, Mr. Watt, put up a 10,000 pound prize on March 20, 1919 to the first to do so - "with a view to stimulating aerial activity." It was a flight filled with incident and potential disaster, but, miraculously, was completed in time to win the award.
This stamp is a fake. And even the real stamp is not a stamp, but rather a Cinderella - and very expensive indeed.
Cheers,
Wine
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Complete sheet from Germany, airmail stamp from 1919. Could also be used on regular mail.
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Carabop,
A plane on the stamp and a plane in the cancellation.
Linus
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Miscellaneous airmail overprints, including another of the New Guinea stamps:
I generally don't collect overprints, but these are quite attractive and interesting.
Bob
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Some more cancels with planes.
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I've always like U.S. C11, "Beacon on Rocky Mountains," especially with the cancellation on this one:
Here's the same cancellation on a pair of "Chicago Century of Progress" commemorative:
I've always wondered if there are varieties of this cancellation, but after looking at several examples I haven't found any. The various degrees of inking seem to create "varieties".
Bob
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More airplane cancellations
I found these stamps, separated, in a glassine envelope that I purchased:
"GIVE WINGS TO YOUR MAIL":
At first glance, the airplanes in these Canadian "SAVE TIME/USE AIRMAIL" slogan cancellations look similar, but they're quite different; note that the fonts are also different, and the "SAVE TIME" on the stamp at the right is curved:
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Got these last Week. When I saw them I had to have them.
Luxemburg 1931,Airmail stamps. Breguet over the city of Luxemburg and the Alzette valley.
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"The G-EAOU (God Elp All Of Us) Vickers Vimy bomber that Ross Smith piloted from England to Australia in 1919. Around 100 pieces of mail were carried on the flight. This was the first successful flight from England to Australia. The acting Prime Minister of Australia, Mr. Watt, put up a 10,000 pound prize on March 20, 1919 to the first to do so - "with a view to stimulating aerial activity." It was a flight filled with incident and potential disaster, but, miraculously, was completed in time to win the award.
This stamp is a fake. And even the real stamp is not a stamp, but rather a Cinderella - and very expensive indeed.
Cheers,
Wine"
The facsimile has no watermark, and it is Australia's most expensive Cinderella; last time I saw one sold on cover was about $20,000, it also isn't the most popular; even though its history is of great historical importance it is avoided by many collectors who can afford it as being too expensive for a label.
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France C1
The French used the airplane silhouette also on a number of stamps issued in the colonies.
But mostly in the design of the stamp. The o/p is rarer, and alas subject to counterfeiting.
Incidentally, this one is counterfeit. (very crudely...look at that last e!)
rrr...
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Dad had found (in the 1960s?) a large number of 1930s era covers. Many looked like they'd been lying in the street during rush hour and were discarded. This one reads, SAVE TIME USE AIR MAIL and was postmarked in Vancouver, BC, Canada on December 21, 1938. It contains a Christmas greeting card and a lengthy personal note.
This second example has the same cancellation message, but with a different design. It was mailed in 1940 from Bell, Gouinlock & Co., Ltd. in Toronto, Ontario, Canada to a Bank in Richmond, Indiana.
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Again some stamps that I just received. A set from Honduras 1929. Overprints for the first flight from Honduras to New York. This flight however never took place and apparently these stamps were never used on airmail letters.?.
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From my WW block collection, a flying boat with a railway cancel? Think about it...
Linus
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And here's an Irish paquetbot airmail cover posted from the United States Lines ocean liner, S.S. America! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, or, er, your rudder!
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You know, Bob, I think the sender is the writer William Saroyan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Saroyan
Laurence Pollinger (the c/o in the return address) was a literary agent in London. His agency in still in business"
http://www.pollingerltd.com/history/index.htm
And the recipient was an attorney and literary agent in New York, who represented Saroyan, among others:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/21/business/paul-gitlin-83-pioneering-literary-agent-to-stars.html
So, it all triangulates.
A nice cover, paqueboat and all!!
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Wait --
I was just googling to find images of the US/Soviet joint issue for the Saroyan stamp, and it took me to *your* page -- lol!
http://www.ephemeraltreasures.net/william-saroyan-part-1.html
http://www.ephemeraltreasures.net/william-saroyan-part-2.html
So I guess you already knew about it!
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I did know about it! Thank you for the plug for my web page.
As I explain on that web page, I purchased the cover from Roy Lingen several years ago. I bought it because I didn't have any Irish airmail stamps on cover. Only after I received it did I realize who the sender was. Serendipitously, Saroyan was already one of my favourite American authors!
Bob
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France, American Legion in Paris. Nice article on Wikipedia in German and English.
Also on you tube.
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08:24:07am
re: Planes
Have been working on my Aviation Pioneers presentation for the next Philatelic Gathering (April 27), so I was surfing a SOR Search of "aviation" for inspiration. Saw Bob's posting above, wondering if there were variations of the Curtiss JN-4 (Jenny) "Airmail Saves Time" cancellation. Collectors of early FAM covers will, no doubt, recall that there was a Spanish version of this cancellation:
Completely different design than the one Bob shows, but contemporary in time, and with the same message. Mine is a partial strike, but not smudged, and is much better than the other one I have in my collection.
And, when I was finding the cover above, I noticed the one below on the next page in my album, and chose to display it here, since this subject has evolved into a very worthy 'Planes in Cancellations' theme...
Haven't done any research on it yet, I was hooked by the interesting cancellation, the agent's signature, the early first flight date, and the low price.
Enjoy!
-Paul
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I wonder if CARABOB was aware of the amount of stamps or covers showing planes, when she started this post way back in 2016, A great topic which can turn into a huge collection on its own,covering numerous countries. A few more to keep it going.
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re: Planes
And a few covers and card.
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Hey Paul/pigdoc,
If you ever want to sell or trade that US C11 cover above,
I would love to have it in my C11 cover collection!
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Just saw this on Colnet. This year's, 2019, stamp to add to my DC-3 collection although I'm guessing it's a DC-2. It's part of a miniature sheet. (KLM was an early adopter of Douglas airliners in Europe.)
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Off the top of my head I would say a DC-4 or DC-6. I will plump for the former I think.
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@snowy12: The Dutch stamp does show a DC-2, and KLM was the first airline in Europe to fly Douglas airliners. Its first purchase was a DC-2, which it named the Uiver (Old Dutch for”stork”) and entered in the 1934 MacRobertson International Air Race between London and Melbourne.The Uiver placed first in the handicap portion of the race and and showed that air transport of cargo and passengers was practical and potentially lucrative. The DC-2 is often said to be the world!s first modern airliner.
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11:36:59am
re: Planes
Danny,
I saw this postcard while strolling through a junk curio shop while on my lunch break and remembered your post about your DC-3 collection. I am unsure whether this is a DC-1, DC-2 or DC-3. Can you tell just from a basic image?
The guy has a pencil mark price written on it of $8.00 and his booth number. I think the $8.00 price is probably on the low side if offered by a dealer. I see high interest postally used cards like this offered for $20.00 all day long. I picked it up for $4.00.
Poignant note from Dad to son on the card. How do you like the way he asks, "How would you like to fly out here in one of these?". Hahaha. If he had lived to see a Boeing 747.
If you send me a private message I will send it to you at no cost.
Have a great week.
-Ernie
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@ernieinjax:
There are several differences between the DC-2 and the DC-3:
• The planes in the foreground and background are DC-3s. The others are DC-2s.
• In cross section, the fuselages of the two planes are different:
• The DC-2 has two landing lights located in the nose. The DC-3's landing lights are outboard of the engines on the leading edg of the wings.
• The DC3 has a dorsal fillet added to the fin to improve stability. The DC-2 has no dorsal filet.
• Overall, the DC-3 appears a bit more "plump" than the DC-2.
The DC-2, not surprisingly, followed the DC-1, a plane designed by Donald Douglas to meet the needs of TWA — then Trans-Western Airlines — for its routes in the western U.S., and to compete with United Airlines, which was flying the Boeing 247. In a sweetheart deal, Boeing had agreed to sell the 247 only to United Airlines, so TWA had to search elsewhere for a plane that met their needs. The DC-1 was that plane: it could take off on only one engine and climb to 10,000 feet, had innovative variable pitch propellers for greater fuel efficiency and flaps for lower landing speeds, greater safety, and the ability to land on short runways.
There was only one DC-1. The DC-2s that TWA ordered was slightly longer, but otherwise was a DC-1. This unused real-photo postcard pictures the DC-1; the first DC-2 to be sold outside the U.S. went to KLM Airlines, which probably explains the Dutch caption.
Bob
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Ernie that's is a beautiful and stunning postcard.
I think the first three DCs are best looked at as the same plane. The DC-1 as the prototype, the DC-2 as mark 1 and the DC-3 as Mark 2. When we see how the many aircraft models are still Being 737s it makes sense.
As Bob has written the DC-2 was basically the production run of the DC-1 prototype. Also as Bob says the DC-3 was based on the DC-2 but with a wider cabin. There was a very good reason for this. C.R. Smith, head of American Airlines, spent over $300 on a long-distance two hour phone call to Donald Douglas. He needed a replacement for his Curtiss T-32 Condor IIs which had sleeping berths for passengers crossing the North American continent on night flights. He was probably worried that TWA's daytime DC-2 service would eat into his market. The problem for him was that he couldn't fit sleeping berths on both sides of the cabin into the DC-2s 66 inch cabin width. He had to persuade Douglas to increase the width and the DC-3 ended up with 92 inches.
The Curtiss T-32 Condor
Just on a side note, when Shirley Temple sings about "on the good ship Lollipop" she actually singing about an American Airlines DC-2, not a ship on sea.
Shirley Temple
C R Smith's sponsorship of the DC-3 design explains why the DC-3 was originally called the DST (Douglas Sleeper Transport). Airlines soon found that the DC-3 made more economic sense with more seats. The eighth plane off the production line had the 14-16 sleeping berths replaced with 21 seats. DC-3s would soon be offering 32 seats against the DC-2s 14 seats.
The Douglas DST
C R Smith ordered 10 DSTs at $79,500 each in July 1935 during the Great Depression. The money came from the US Governments Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC). FDR had widened the RFC's remit so it covered more than bad banks under his New Deal.
Today we not only see various governments financing their aircraft industries, we also see the airlines competing on who has the best sleeping berths on long distance flights.
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I've been collecting aircraft on stamps and covers for several years now. More covers these days than stamps. Here is a recent acquisition I bought on eBay. Bidding was competitive for this one, but I got it with an esnipe bid that was considerably more than what I usually pay for a cover. It is, however, a dramatic cover that I think is worth the price. I have not seen one like it before. I'm pleased to add it to my collection.
While I have not yet written up the cover, I am presently identifying the aircraft as a Lockheed 8 "Sirius." The rudder is not quite right, but that may be the artists lack of attention to detail. I know there are a several knowledgeable aircraft-on-stamps collectors on this forum, so, if anyone has a more accurate ID for this airplane I would be pleased to have it before I put the cover in my album.
FF
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re: Planes
Japan 1919 first trial flight
High value Sakura C22 & 23 - lots of Fakes
1929-34 Sakura A1-5 Lake Ashinoko
1952 AIRMAIL Mt.Tateyama Sakura A16-A21
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My purpose for posting this S/S is to ask if any Aircraft on Stamps collectors recognize the make and model of the airplane depicted on this sheet.
It may be named in a catalog, but I don't have a current Scott's or a second edition SG Collect Aircraft on Stamps catalog.
It may be a Phoenix D III (Austrian design)? Any help appreciated!
FF
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11:35:27am
re: Planes
Scott does not specify the type. My guess is that it is a Brandenburg Hansa C1 which was used on the first regular international airmail service. It could be a Phonix C1, but the DIII was a single seat Fighter. Another choice is the LVG C VI which made the first airmail runs between Berlin and Weimar in 1919. The first day notes issued with the stamp don't mention the type but they do reference the Weimar - Berlin service. Couple of photos of the C VI here
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Thanks, nlroberts, for your suggestions and link. I'm at the APS show in Omaha, but will check each possibility you mention when home again.
Looks like a radiator in front of the front cockpit. That should be a help, but haven't seen a photo yet that shows one there.
FF
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11:03:03am
re: Planes
The trick is that most of these aircraft were rebuilt/modified military aircraft. A lot of them appear in slightly different configurations if you study the various photos. Another issue is that the stamp may be an artists interpretation and not strictly accurate to any specific model. The AEG j.ii is a good example of variants. If you look at this model kit bashing article here , this is quite different from say this variant here with different engine exhaust and fuselage.
Finally each of these aircraft were not only built by the original manufacturer but were licensed to other manufacturers. For example Phonix built variants of the brandenburg hansa and LVG if i recall. The more i look at it I think the LVG V VI or variant seems the closest silhoutette. All these models were originally recon or general purpose aircraft.
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" The more I look at it I think the LVG V VI or variant seems the closest silhoutette."
Hi nlroberts:
I've checked some images of the aircraft you mentioned on the internet back in my motel room and, yes, I agree, the LVG models seem the closest to the s/s image. I'll probably go with it in my write-up for this sheet, with a caveat that the aircraft's identification is a "most likely" choice. Most people wouldn't care anyway, but I do and, for me, part of the fun in collecting aircraft on stamps and covers is identifying the aircraft.
Again, many thanks for your help.
Don (FF)
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08:24:48am
re: Planes
Hello,
A few stamps of Free State Danzig 1920-24
and the World's first (?) air post stamp
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Once again I am looking for help with identifying an aircraft, this time in a cachet from the WW II period. The airplane on the cover below looks like a Curtiss, but it is not a Seamew because the wingtips are not turned up. A Curtiss Model 84, SB2C Helldiver on floats? A Brewster Buccaneer? I think the rear cabin looks too short to be Brewster. Any comments will be appreciated.
FF
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07:13:43pm
re: Planes
It looks like a Kingfisher Scout Plane.
Kingfisher
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Further to previous discussions about the DC series of airliners, here are three postcards from my collection:
A real-photo postcard of a DST (not the small rectangular windows for the sleeping berths above each passenger window:
A cutaway view of the DST's interior:
And a photo of passengers getting reading for bed:
Hmmm.... I wonder how many DST passengers were able to join the Mile High Club?
Bob
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A fascinating if tragic wartime DC-3 drama emerged from the death of movie actor Carole Lombard, who perished on a TWA DC-3 flight from Las Vegas to Los Angeles in 1942. I recommend a recent book about the crash, titled Fireball: Carole Lombard and the Mystery of Flight 3.
Bob
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"It looks like a Kingfisher Scout Plane."
Thanks Michael. I think you are right. A catapult launched Kingfisher. I had forgotten about the Vought OS2U.
Don
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"Hmmm.... I wonder how many DST passengers were able to join the Mile High Club? "
Oh my, surely not!
FF
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A hidden story in a stamp.
As I am always looking for new material for my DC-3 collection I was pleased to see Spain issuing this stamp a bit earlier in the year. It celebrates a hundred years of air transport in Spain. The background B&W images is a DC-3, or to be more specific the military version, a C-47. I haven't bought one yet and this image is off Delcampe.
Now where it gets interesting is the aircraft registration is clearly visible, EC-ABL. A check on the number brought up a rather strange story. We have to remember that the fascist leader of Spain during WW2, General Franco, was closely allied to the Axis powers. Both Germany and Italy had helped him defeat the republicans in the civil war.
EC-ABL was one of three DC-3s belonging to the US 12th Air Force carrying US paratroopers from the UK to Oran in Algeria. This was on the 8th November 1942 and would have been in support of Operation Torch, the US seaborne landings in North Africa.
Unfortunately the planes running short of fuel had to make emergency landings in what they thought was Algeria. I'm not sure if for the men it was that unfortunate that they actually landed in Spanish controlled Morocco. They weren't going to be shot at anyway.
Now Franco was a wily old bird and by late 1942 he was no longer certain that Hitler was a real winner. He had supplied volunteers to fight against the Russians, but he had held off officially joining in with his friends. The US military personnel were repatriated fairly quickly via Gibraltar. The three interned aircraft were purchased by Spain from the US the following year for $100,000 each and ended up being part of the Iberia fleet.
A whole story from the registration number shown on a 2019 postage stamp. What more could you ask for?
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
30 Nov 2019
09:32:59am
re: Planes
I just found this unused postcard tucked away in my stock. Thought you might enjoy seeing it.
Roy
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Thanks Roy, the cockpit looks so cramped by today's standards. When I was being ferried down into the Libyan dessert the pilots seldom closed the door so they could see what their passengers (us) were up to. Danny
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Cleaning up my fathers house after his recent passing and found some books and papers that the plane he flew in WWII was a “Lancaster”. Then I found this Canadian stamp.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Dec 2019
05:43:37pm
re: Planes
Airplanes take me back to the 1960's. I was a collector even back then. Jello issued round plastic wheels with pictures of cars and airplanes in them. There were 200 of each and the cars came first, early 60's I think. When you had the set you could send away 25 cents for holders very similar to poker chip holders. They also sent a book with each set - either French or English depending on what you asked for. I still have my complete sets in holder with books. We couldn't eat that much Jello so I had a route around the area - people would save the wheels for me. Does that ring a bell with anyone else out there?
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I'm stumped on identifying the aircraft on this 1932 first-flight from Elk City, Oklahoma and hoping that someone recognizes it. It somewhat resembles an Armstrong Whitworth design, but the enclosed pilot cabin and engines aren't right. A composite drawing, perhaps?
Thanks.
Don FF
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FF - Looks like an artist creation to me, as I have never seen a plane like that one.
Here is a cover I bought at Snowpex, earlier this year, for my WW block collection, just because I liked it.
Linus
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From my Aircraft on Covers Collection, a 1932 air show cover with a watercolor add-on cachet depicting what was probably meant to be a de Havilland DH-4 in flight. The rudder and cowling don't look quite like a DH-4's, but the rest of the airplane is a close approximation.
FF
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A few years ago I spent a bundle on this First Flight Cover, signed by and flown by the French "Lindbergh," Jean Mermoz, on the first official airmail flight, in 1929, over the Andes between Buenos Aires and Santiago, Chile:
Mermoz gained fame as a pioneer of Trans-Atlantic mail service from Europe to South America and within South America.
Ever since obtaining that cover, I've been looking for an FFC flown on the first official airmail flight from Santiago to Buenos Aires. And a few weeks ago I found one on HipStamp! It too was flown by Mermoz, s few days after the Buenos Aires-Santiago flight:
Mermoz flew both flights in a Potez-25 biplane, illustrated on this French commemorative issued in 1997:
My search for a Santiago-Buenos Aires cover yielded a surprise, posted a year before the Mermoz flights:
It wouldn't be much to write home about, except for its provenance:
• While it's not an FFC, it is a cover that was carried on a flight made to explore possible airmail routes over the Andes. The address makes sense because the cover was flown in a Ryan aircraft (I don't yet know what model); Ryan was hoping that its aircraft would be purchased for airmail services in South America.
• And the pilot, who would become even better known than Mermoz? Jimmie Doolittle, who less than a year later would make the world's first "blind" flight, relying completely on instruments and radio signals from take off to landing. Then, in the Second World War, he would plan and lead the U.S.'s first attack on Japan.
Bob
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Can not leave behind :
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The next stamps are not that common for most of you, but interesting :
HALBAMTLICHE FLUGMARKEN
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05:09:28pm
re: Planes
Just received this beauty:
I was inspired to add it to my collection after reading the book: Flying the Andes, the Story of Pan-American Grace Airways. El Inter-Americano DC-6 service to Buenos Aires, Argentina was inaugurated on October 11, 1947. The card has a Buenos Aires cancellation, January 23, 1953. Panagra had a reputation for some of the most luxurious air travel that could be obtained.
From the book:
"On September 11, 1952, the conversion of the DC-6s to the new engines and propellers was completed. The ambitious program had taken just over a year, and had cost $600,000 (more than $6 million in today's dollars!). The type R-2800 CB-16 Pratt & Whitney engines combined with the Hamilton Hi-Activity propellers gave Panagra the fastest civil air transport in regular daily scheduled service anywhere in the world. With upgraded engines, the Miami to Buenos Aires schedule speeded up. The "Fiesta Lounge" flights of the El Inter Americano route now took just short of eighteen hours of flying time. The first day of El Inter Americano's daylight flights from Miami to Lima, Captain Fritz Sterling set a new speed record going the other direction, flying between Lima and Panama with Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt aboard. By December 11 the service had established such a standard that the very first Frye Trophy, one of aviation's most prestigious awards, went to Panagra for its "Fiesta Lounge" service on El Inter Americano. The service was lauded as the fastest passenger service on a regularly scheduled run operated by a United States airline. Jack Frye himself, a well-known figure in aviation for many years, and then-president of Trans-World Airlines (TWA), presented the trophy to Douglas Campbell in a ceremony at New York's "21" Club."
The addressee on the card is located about 6 miles from where I live!
The seller owns an antique shop about 50 miles from me, in Columbia, PA, and the business card he enclosed invited me to visit his Ephemera Room. {Homer mode} Mmmm, pork chops...{/Homer mode}
-Paul
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10:22:16pm
re: Planes
For you airplane buffs...
I found this in my father's shed after he died, very carefully wrapped. Unbelievably great condition (to me at least).
He once told me he had an old Spitfire propellor that he brought home after the war (but I'm skeptical about this).
It is now hanging in my basement "stamp room".
Any ideas what type of airplane it is from?
Thanks, Dave.
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10:41:03pm
re: Planes
Looks like it's New, Original Stock (NOS).
"Brought home after the war"?
Odds are it's for a de Havilland Moth (biplane trainer), or something of the sort...
Should be a number on it somewhere, maybe stamped into the face of the hub.
How long is it?
Props for small (60-70hp) engines are around 6 feet long.
Looks like it's made of birch, a common wood species used for propellers.
Here is a site with some technical info to get you started:
Propellerman
-Paul
PS, I just found this image at Propellerman's site:
It seems likely to me that your propeller might be a "wallmount" for display only.
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Heres my contribution to planes...i will post a picture of the plane on the back of this..lets see if it can be real or imagined.
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Lets see if this bares any resemblance to a real plane !
or is as fake as the stamps on the front.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
28 Dec 2021
01:48:03pm
re: Planes
It is a slightly stylized Ford Trimotor.
Roy
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Thanks, i was a bit confused by the three engines.
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02:44:58pm
re: Planes
Interesting envelope, phil!
I think Scott shows that stamp was only issued in the rose red 6c denomination (C7), on June 4, 1930. So the other denominations are fantasies? The drawings appear faithful to the actual stamp's design.
Anyway, here's a photo of the Ford Tri-motor in Guatemala City, 1933:
Guatemala City was an intermediate stop between Panama and Mexico City. Pan Am planes would only fly as far south as Panama, and Panagra would only fly as far north as Panama. There, passengers transferred from one airline to another, as the two airlines avoided deliberate competition with each other.
NC9688 was built in May, 1929 and after Pan Am was done with her, she was exported to Mexico in November, 1934. She crashed on the San Martin volcano in March, 1940.
-Paul
PS, here's a high-quality inflight video from a ride on a Trimotor, captured at the 2021 EAA AirVenture, in Osh Kosh, Wisconsin:
Ford Tri-motor
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03:05:03pm
re: Planes
OPC (Obligatory Philatelic Content). Here's a couple of covers with stamps featuring the Ford Tri-motor:
I don't have Guatemala C7 on cover!
(Add it to the Wish List)
-Paul
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Paul, i have a few...but they are part of my personal collection...those i could not part with. phil
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This is the backside of the cover.
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Ford Trimotor photographs my father took in 1929, when he was 18, on a road trip to Cleveland from Hornell, New York to see an air show:
The Ford Trimotor is unusual in many respects, but one of the most surprising to me is its flight control surfaces, which were controlled through cables that were partially exposed on the outside of the airplane. This is a cropped version of the photo above; the cables and the short levers they are attached to are shown inside the blue oval:
There are some excellent photos of the control cables at the Aviation Smiles website.
The development of the Ford Trimotor is interesting. From Wikipedia:
"The aircraft resembled the Fokker F.VII Trimotor (except for being all-metal which Henry Ford claimed made it 'the safest airliner around'). Its fuselage and wings followed a design pioneered by Junkers4 during World War I with the Junkers J.I and used postwar in a series of airliners starting with the Junkers F.13 low-wing monoplane of 1920 of which a number were exported to the US, the Junkers K 16 high-wing airliner of 1921, and the Junkers G 24 trimotor of 1924. All of these were constructed of aluminum alloy, which was corrugated for added stiffness, although the resulting drag reduced its overall performance. So similar were the designs that Junkers sued and won when Ford attempted to export an aircraft to Europe. In 1930, Ford countersued in Prague, and despite the possibility of anti-German sentiment, was decisively defeated a second time, with the court finding that Ford had infringed upon Junkers' patents."
A post to the The Straight Dope Message Boardseems to confirm a Ford Trimotor story I have read before:
"The Fokker F7A looks like a Ford Tri-Motor. More correctly, the Ford looks like the Fokker.
The story goes that Richard Byrd et al flew a Fokker F7 to the north pole in 1926. After returning, he toured the world, and stopped at Dearborn Field in Detroit - owned of course by Henry Ford. Ford offered his own hangar to safeguard the Fokker.
While Byrd and his party were being entertained, Ford engineers worked through the night to measure, copy, and reverse-engineer the entire plane.
Ford had previously purchased the Stout airplane co. and modified one of its models with 3 engines, but it wasn’t until after the Fokker visit that the Tri-Motor took its final form.
I first heard this in about 1978 from an old flight instructor of mine. It’s repeated here and there on the internet, but no one knows for sure"
Industrial espionage committed by Henry Ford? Unbelievable! Just because he was a racist jerk who killed the trolley industry doesn't mean that he would stoop that low!
This is my only Fort Trimotor postcard, but it's a good one, published by the Ford Motor Company as a sales brochure, the text of which is shown in a larger version below:
Note the wheel spats, which were an intermediate step between fixed landing gear, which produced great drag, and retractible landing gear, which reduced landing-gear drag to almost nothing in the DC-1/2/3, and none at all in later aircraft with fully retractible landing gear.
Here's an enlarged, cropped version of the comments on the left side of the observe side of the postcard; note that the message invites prospective buyers to ask for a price quote:
Happy flying, virtually, which is the best way to fly these days, unless you happen to fly your own plane.
Bob
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Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about the differences between the Douglas DC-2 and DC-3 airliners. Here's a summary of the identifying features (and histories) about all of Douglas's propeller-driven* airliners, from the DC-1 through the DC-7.
Bob
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Bob,
Not sure if it was intentional, but I got a big kick out of your use of a "blue oval" to highlight the cable features of that Ford tri-motor!!!!
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@Partsguy
!!! That's funny. I'd never heard of Ford's "Blue Oval" before I posted that picture. My choice of blue was purely, well — almost! — arbitrary. I started to use red, and then I thought, "No, blue. Blue is what the sky is. Airplanes fly in the sky. I'll use a blue oval!" There's probably a rock group called "Blue Oval," too.
boB
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This is one of my favorite airmail covers!
December 31 (hey that's today!) cancel in San Francisco and January 1 cancel in Chicago. It was delivered in Ardmore, PA on January 2nd.
Not bad service for 1933 airmail over a holiday weekend! Dec 31 was a Saturday, Jan 1 was a Sunday.
This is the stuff you occasionally find in those huge boxes of old covers!
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Really like this cover. First flight from Atlanta Ga. Dec 1 1928. To New York arriving on
Dec 2.
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i always liked this stamp...when i was discharged from the service in 1962 and was "working" in Manhattan there were stamp storefronts on every block in midtown...airmail covers with what i call the beacon stamp were selling for a buck apiece which was affordable on $67.00 a week. This one with the new 5 cent rate mailed in Denver August 1 arrived in Pittsurgh on August 2nd.
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The Shirley Temple movie was "Bright Eyes" from 1934. Many years ago when my daughters were young, they had a Shirley Temple moviethon on TV. Long after they lost interest and walked away I kept watching, because this movie has amazing footage of an airport of the day and planes, both field and interior shots! Well worth pulling up and watching!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Eyes_(1934_film)
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09:11:19am
re: Planes
Here's the full movie, on youtube:
Bright Eyes movie
It's colorized, and image quality is not great, but...
At the very beginning, there's some footage of a Curtiss Condor mail plane. The main airport scene with Shirley Temple starts at about 31 minutes in. You get nice interior, cockpit, and side view of NC-14274, an American Airlines DC-2 which was delivered in November, 1934. This aircraft crashed in a swamp in Arkansas in January, 1936.
Thanks, Tom!
-Paul
PS, here's a nice wikipedia page on the airport featured in Bright Eyes:
Grand Central Airport
PPS, the interior of the DC-2 in the movie was a mock-up, a set. Not surprising, as it would be difficult to get the scene shot inside an actual fuselage. However, the accuracy of the mock-up was notable.
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Another interesting old 1930s movie for spotting then current scenes, "Employees' Entrance". It's set in a New York City department store in 1933. Scenes are in places like the appliance department, with ice boxes and the first refrigerators with the compressor on the top. There are also street scenes and a ride on a NYC Double Decker bus!
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Moderator note - This thread is getting slower to load due to all the images. At some point, please consider starting a new thread.
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One of my favorite Airmail covers in my collection. I call it "Shot Down". I believe the postal clerk was responding to the request below??
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I bought this from a Singapore dealer a couple of weeks ago. It's one of the postcards that Scandinavian Airlines gave out to passengers to post back from their destination. This one was sent back from Bangkok in 1949. The plane is a Douglas DC6. My first thought was it was nice to have the card with Danish stamps also showing the DC6. Of course that's wrong. The 1943 stamps show the last of the two Focke-Wulf Fw200 Condors that Danish Airlines had acquired in 1938. The big 4-engine low wing airliner was a bit before its time in some ways.
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Just this last week I discovered something that was totally new to me regarding aircraft history. You can find on various stamps the DC-3/C-47s supplied to Britain during the war were called Dakotas by the British and Commonwealth military. There are various theories for why this was so. What I didn't know was that a RAF squadron in India was flying DC-2s in 1941 which had originally been requisitioned and converted by the US military from their civilian operators. These DC-2s were also referred to as Dakotas. I found this out watching a YouTube video about David Lord, a pilot who won Britain's top military decoration, the Victoria Cross (VC) who died flying a DC-3 at Arnhem. He had previously been flying those DC-2s in India. Here's a link to his story:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lord ...
I doubt there is philatelic output showing these RAF DC-2s, but please do tell me if you know of anything.
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