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Oceania/Australia : Roo tail out of map?

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Winedrinker
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20 Sep 2016
10:22:06pm
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SG 136 for sale on Ebay. The kangaroo tail is completely out of the map, and the critter's dark "ground" area seems too low and also out of map. Is this misalignment of colors something that diminishes the value of the stamp? Or is it even a sign of a fake stamp? I have a number of roo/maps and all seem to be well centered -- maybe I have just been lucky?

Thanks,
Eric

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
21 Sep 2016
01:49:47am
re: Roo tail out of map?

Quote:

"SG 136 for sale on Ebay. The kangaroo tail is completely out of the map, and the critter's dark "ground" area seems too low and also out of map. Is this misalignment of colors something that diminishes the value of the stamp? Or is it even a sign of a fake stamp? I have a number of roo/maps and all seem to be well centered -- maybe I have just been lucky?

Thanks,
Eric"



Hi Eric

The 10/- Kangaroo in Map of Australia is grey and pink, this stamp was issued from 1931-1947, and listed as SG 136 and ACSC 50. The ACSC puts the stamp (without the variety) at approximately $225 in 2008, it would be about $275 - $300 today, with that variety it would be considered scarce and valued at around $450+.

There are many fakes as there are originals, and with these particular stamps it is wise to have an expertising certificate to go with it. If I were to buy that stamp I would give the seller the third degree and will ask for a certificate of authenticity; as he isn't a stamp dealer I would insist on the stamp being certified first.

The scanning of the stamp is too bright as the stamp should not be that faded, this is a common trick to hide blemishes and damage which would considerably lower the value of the stamp; did the seller show the reverse of the stamp, the reverse is extremely important as it would show if it is hinged' lightly or heavily, lightly the stamp can easily lose half it's value, heavily even considerably less; and any other damage such as holes paper tears etc.

The borders are well positioned, and even though the top perfs are very short and some are missing, I've seen real stamps of this type; if it were real it would be a desirable stamp.

How much is it selling for and did the seller show the reverse of the stamp?
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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Winedrinker
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21 Sep 2016
09:01:39am
re: Roo tail out of map?

Robert, the stamp is selling for $45 US dollars. Here is reverse of stamp, showing correct watermark. The seller did not have the option to show a larger image of the stamp.
Appreciate your input.

Image Not Found

Cheers,
Eric

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
21 Sep 2016
11:10:37am
re: Roo tail out of map?

Hi Eric

The back looks alright, no signs of damage or alterations; I don't want to be pedantic but do you think a better front image can be obtained. $45 is quite cheap for this stamp when one normally cannot obtain that stamp for less than $250 (without the variety).

So a front scan in the same manner as the reverse will suffice.

To give you an idea of the value of the normal 10 shilling grey roo with a pink background is around $700 - $850 unused (up to $1,000 in superb mint unhinged condition); $500 - $550 mint lightly hinged and $275 - $300 for fine used condition.

If anyone wants to purchase the stamp one can take the risk and buy it or get more info on the stamp before purchasing it. US$45 is nearly AU$60.

It would be a very nice addition in anyone's collection, and I know I'm like an overprotective mother, when buying from eBay be very careful.

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Winedrinker
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24 Sep 2016
03:58:52pm
re: Roo tail out of map?

Robert, I purchased the stamp for $45. If there is anything that captures anyone's eye regarding the stamps authenticity, or not, it would be appreciated. I know these stamps are often faked. The seller (Ebay) had a good reputation and a large number of sales, but I know that often doesn't cut the mustard. The SG and Scott catalogue I use don't have the detail that would be helpful, so I am at the point of buying an ACSC in the near future.

Thanks!
Eric

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
24 Sep 2016
05:35:25pm
re: Roo tail out of map?

Can you show the back the same size Eric, so far I cannot find anything suspicious. It is well centered, I'm soon going to post grading the Kangaroo and map, you might find helpful.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Winedrinker
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24 Sep 2016
06:37:56pm
re: Roo tail out of map?

And a picture of the back. The C & A watermark shows up pretty clearly.

Look forward to your grading of the Kangaroo Maps. I have the first series through 5sh, and many of the rest. Mostly used alas.

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Eric

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langtounlad
24 Sep 2016
07:16:23pm
re: Roo tail out of map?

I do not believe that this is the Misplaced Kangaroo variety. To qualify for this category at least 2mm of the Kangaroo must be outside the outline of the map. Your Roo would appear to be ½ to 1mm outside.

Do not know where you get your information from but I have never heard of great numbers of these being faked and I have been collecting Roos for a long time. Can you quote a credible source please.

Regards
Frank

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Winedrinker
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24 Sep 2016
08:19:50pm
re: Roo tail out of map?

Frank, thanks for the information on the Misplaced Kangaroo variety -- story of my life, 1mm short.

As for possible fake Roos, when I mentioned about 6 months ago in this forum that I was about to collect Roos I was told by someone that I should be careful because I would be "stepping into a minefield" of questionable stamps. Perhaps I was too young and impressionable back then and should not have taken that at face value. Happy

Only been collecting Australia for six months, so I have a lot to learn. If there is not a lot of fakery going on with Roos I am glad to hear it, as I have more spaces and varieties I am looking for.

Cheers,
Eric




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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
25 Sep 2016
11:27:28am
re: Roo tail out of map?

Thanks Eric, is that mark above a hinge remnant or age? Though Frank is correct, it should be understood that any design out of alignment is known as a variety, so even though your stamp is not the type of variety that will be written into a catalogue (2mm) it is still a variety as the kangaroo is centered to the right with the tail outside the map.

The stamp itself is scarce.

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
lemaven
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25 Sep 2016
10:32:56pm

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re: Roo tail out of map?

Eric, we had some discussion recently about quality of scans for close-up inspection of fine details (it might still be up under something like "Autoscan vs Photoscan". Ningpo (Clive) showed some examples with higher resolution.

Might be worthwhile to post one as high a dpi as you can, maybe with a closeup of the end of the tail, to get more feedback. When I enlarged your scan on my screen it looked suspiciously darker just outside of the border - almost like two round dots were added. But it doesn't bleed through to the gum side, so maybe just a perceptual thing on my part.

The top section Rob1956 asked about looks like some kind of stain/damage from a liquid spill - same shape visible front and back. Was that described by the seller? when seen "live" did it give you any concern?

I'm not asking to cause you any aggro - just that I have found when I've been listing my U.S. stamps lately I see the scans and sometimes notice all kinds of "defects" I couldn't see with the naked eye and feel compelled to go back and change the descriptions.

Anyway, it is a nice stamp and a great addition to anyone's collection of Australia!

Cheers, Dave.

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Winedrinker
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25 Sep 2016
11:46:04pm
re: Roo tail out of map?

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Robert and Dave,

Used my trusty USB microscope to enlarge the end of the tail. To me, it appears that there is no sign of any additions to the tail. But it looks like the grey ink may have bled just a bit at the top end of the tail. Also, looking at other tails on other stamps, it does seem a bit straighter and less rounded than those (?). What do you think?

And yes the top corner of the stamp on the backside shows a discoloration or stain. I thought it was a thin at first, but thickness of the paper seems same. The scan that the seller used on ebay also showed this. The front of the stamp is not affected, otherwise it would have been a concern.

Appreciate the comments very much! Adds to the experience of the collecting, even if it would prove one of my stamps to be a dud!

Cheers!
Eric


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lemaven
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26 Sep 2016
01:45:45am

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re: Roo tail out of map?

Wow Eric, that's some CSI-level detail! Can't see anyone able to add those little fingerprint-like swirls to the end of the tail, so I think you're safe on that count!

Personally, unless I was an investor who cared only about resale value and profitability, I think if the face of the stamp is nice to look at - as yours is - little stains, etc on the gum side are almost worthy of being ignored on Used stamps (Mint would be another matter).

If you ever feel pressure from SoR members or others to decide it's a dud, feel free to send it to me. I don't mind helping you out, but you would have to pay the postage... Winking

More good luck in your collecting!

Cheers, Dave.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
26 Sep 2016
02:47:46am
re: Roo tail out of map?

Quote:

"Robert and Dave,

Used my trusty USB microscope to enlarge the end of the tail. To me, it appears that there is no sign of any additions to the tail. But it looks like the grey ink may have bled just a bit at the top end of the tail. Also, looking at other tails on other stamps, it does seem a bit straighter and less rounded than those (?). What do you think?

And yes the top corner of the stamp on the backside shows a discoloration or stain. I thought it was a thin at first, but thickness of the paper seems same. The scan that the seller used on ebay also showed this. The front of the stamp is not affected, otherwise it would have been a concern.

Appreciate the comments very much! Adds to the experience of the collecting, even if it would prove one of my stamps to be a dud!

Cheers!
Eric"


It definitely is a variety, and the stamp is definitely authentic; although the mark at the back will affect the value of the stamp, the amount you paid is far less than what one would pay from a stamp dealer.

I'm not too sure if it has fugitive ink. I have a few fugitive ink stamps in my collection.

A very nice acquisition indeed.

Cheers
Rob

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