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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

 

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lemaven
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04 Sep 2016
09:42:26pm
Rather urgent...

As I'm putting up some oldies for The Hoard's US Divestiture Program I am trying to accurately describe every nook and cranny found on the stamp. But I am not sure I am using the terminology correctly. Here are some examples of what I'm finding. What are the best terms to use so Buyers know what they are getting?

1) A "light line" in the paper that is usually visible on the face side of the stamp with close inspection. When the edge of the stamp is gently pushed down it does not bend at that line.

2) As above, but the line is only visible on the gum side of the stamp, and the face side appears intact.

3) A "line" in the paper that is usually quite visible on the face side of the stamp - often found as a diagonal in a corner. When the edge of the stamp is lightly pushed down it definitely bends at that line.

I've used the terms "bend" for #1 and #2 and "crease" for #3, but not sure if doing so properly. To my mind, there should be a better/softer word for #2 as it is not a factor in the attractiveness of the stamp once mounted on a page.

Many Thanks!

Dave.

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michael78651

05 Sep 2016
02:20:48am
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

To me they are all creases.

For #2, you can always call it a light crease not visible from the front of the stamp.

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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Sep 2016
02:37:22am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

All creases, although jpegs would help.

For #1 and #2 you could call them "pressed creases".

There are also pre printing folds which can produce some spectacular oddities when soaked and opened up.

Describing stamp faults can be a minefield - there is a difference between a "short perf" and a "pulled perf". There is "original gum", "disturbed gum", and "glazed gum". There is "offset" on the back occurring during the printing process (not a fault) and there is "offset" on the back caused by stamps lightly sticking to each other and pulling the color off the stamp it was stuck to (which is a fault).

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lemaven
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05 Sep 2016
07:50:59am
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Per Carol's request, here are some scans.

I know pricing is sketchy as I've seen some folks start ordinary stamps at 50%+ of CV. I'm trying to pass on some savings as the amount I get is not of primary importance to me in this group. So from a relative perspective (thinking as if I were a buyer, around what range of CV would I pay) do the price "discounts" look reasonable?

This is a #3 (running CL to UR): the most easily seen and described; and I would think the most impactful on price, Start at 5%of CV?

Image Not Found

This is a #1 (running horizontally across the middle about 0.1cm above the horizon): it can be seen on the front, especially if you know where to look {I had to examine the backs first then flip this around to see if it was visible}. Some impact on price, start at 10%of CV?

Image Not Found

This is a #2 (enlarged and marked so you can see it on the scan, although you have to tilt it around to find it with the naked eye). Minimal impact on price, start at 20% of CV?

Image Not Found


Many thanks, Dave.

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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Sep 2016
07:59:34am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Maybe I'm just a bit jaded having gone through thousands of early US but I would send them to the holocaust project. On stamps of negligible catalog value such defects render them pretty much unsalable at any price.

I am sure others will be along to agree or disagree - it will be interesting to see what others say.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

05 Sep 2016
08:36:10am

Auctions
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

i'm with Carol on all but the mint, where it appears gum disturbance and not paper crease. If my eyes deceive on that one, then I agree with Carol on all three.

you've gotten a great education from them, but aren't likely to receive funds. Now, that's a decent bargain for three MCV damaged stamps

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

05 Sep 2016
10:59:10am
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Those are the kind of stamps you'd find in stamp packets. The 20 center is obviously creased and I wouldn't have it in my collection. On the 30 center you had to go hunting for an issue on the back, that many average collectors wouldn't even notice. The cancel on this one is strategic and doesn't obscure the stamp design.


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michael78651

05 Sep 2016
11:06:21am
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

I agree with the others on the 20 cent stamp. The crease does it in. Just FYI, if it were pre-canceled, then it may be of interest to a pre-cancel collector.

The 30 cent stamp is nicely centered. Since the crease is minimally visible (at least it appears so in the scan), and the cancel is not obstructive, someone may want to add it to their collection, but at a substantial discount. Your percentage of 20% of catalog seems reasonable to me. Still, you'll be working up a stamp for sale from which you'll only get a few cents for. You'll have to decide if the effort is worth it to you. However, if the paper is cracked from the back like the 20 cent stamp is from the front, ship it to the project as Carol suggests.

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lemaven
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05 Sep 2016
11:30:20am
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Thanks for the extra feedback. I chose these stamps because they showed off the defects I wanted to describe and price accordingly - and to apply consistently across the board. Not necessarily going up for sale. That being said:

1) I toss anything like the 20c unless the CV is at least $1.00 - then I figure someone might want it cheap for a space filler. Interestingly, I already did post a similar stamp with a precancel applying the same logic as did Michael.

2) The 30c is nicely centred and cancelled, and the crease isn't really obvious, but with a CV of just 60c it was on the bubble. I have put it aside with some similar older stamps (or higher CVs with more obvious defects) to accumulate a bunch for a super cheap package.

3) The bottom stamp is more representative of many I'm finding - personally, for something I collect I wouldn't hesitate to take this at a lower price and might (or might not) mark it in my album as a potential candidate for replacement with a better copy. If the face was nice I don't think I'd care about it.


Many thanks again. I think I've got a better handle on the issue. I'll continue to describe as best as possible and price accordingly. Since I'm combining everything to the end of September, selling some stamps for a just a few cents here and there to someone who wants them (probably newer collectors) as part of their overall purchases is still useful for myself as well.

Dave.

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michael78651

05 Sep 2016
11:37:20am
re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Oh, I also meant to add that if the stamp has perforated initials you would not want to toss those either. With perfined stamps, it is the perfin that is of more interest than the condition of the stamp.

As to whether or not you actually do toss, sell, or keep a stamp, that final decision is always left up to the one who owns the stamp.

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
lemaven

04 Sep 2016
09:42:26pm

Rather urgent...

As I'm putting up some oldies for The Hoard's US Divestiture Program I am trying to accurately describe every nook and cranny found on the stamp. But I am not sure I am using the terminology correctly. Here are some examples of what I'm finding. What are the best terms to use so Buyers know what they are getting?

1) A "light line" in the paper that is usually visible on the face side of the stamp with close inspection. When the edge of the stamp is gently pushed down it does not bend at that line.

2) As above, but the line is only visible on the gum side of the stamp, and the face side appears intact.

3) A "line" in the paper that is usually quite visible on the face side of the stamp - often found as a diagonal in a corner. When the edge of the stamp is lightly pushed down it definitely bends at that line.

I've used the terms "bend" for #1 and #2 and "crease" for #3, but not sure if doing so properly. To my mind, there should be a better/softer word for #2 as it is not a factor in the attractiveness of the stamp once mounted on a page.

Many Thanks!

Dave.

Like
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this post
michael78651

05 Sep 2016
02:20:48am

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

To me they are all creases.

For #2, you can always call it a light crease not visible from the front of the stamp.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Sep 2016
02:37:22am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

All creases, although jpegs would help.

For #1 and #2 you could call them "pressed creases".

There are also pre printing folds which can produce some spectacular oddities when soaked and opened up.

Describing stamp faults can be a minefield - there is a difference between a "short perf" and a "pulled perf". There is "original gum", "disturbed gum", and "glazed gum". There is "offset" on the back occurring during the printing process (not a fault) and there is "offset" on the back caused by stamps lightly sticking to each other and pulling the color off the stamp it was stuck to (which is a fault).

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
lemaven

05 Sep 2016
07:50:59am

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Per Carol's request, here are some scans.

I know pricing is sketchy as I've seen some folks start ordinary stamps at 50%+ of CV. I'm trying to pass on some savings as the amount I get is not of primary importance to me in this group. So from a relative perspective (thinking as if I were a buyer, around what range of CV would I pay) do the price "discounts" look reasonable?

This is a #3 (running CL to UR): the most easily seen and described; and I would think the most impactful on price, Start at 5%of CV?

Image Not Found

This is a #1 (running horizontally across the middle about 0.1cm above the horizon): it can be seen on the front, especially if you know where to look {I had to examine the backs first then flip this around to see if it was visible}. Some impact on price, start at 10%of CV?

Image Not Found

This is a #2 (enlarged and marked so you can see it on the scan, although you have to tilt it around to find it with the naked eye). Minimal impact on price, start at 20% of CV?

Image Not Found


Many thanks, Dave.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Sep 2016
07:59:34am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Maybe I'm just a bit jaded having gone through thousands of early US but I would send them to the holocaust project. On stamps of negligible catalog value such defects render them pretty much unsalable at any price.

I am sure others will be along to agree or disagree - it will be interesting to see what others say.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
05 Sep 2016
08:36:10am

Auctions

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

i'm with Carol on all but the mint, where it appears gum disturbance and not paper crease. If my eyes deceive on that one, then I agree with Carol on all three.

you've gotten a great education from them, but aren't likely to receive funds. Now, that's a decent bargain for three MCV damaged stamps

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
05 Sep 2016
10:59:10am

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Those are the kind of stamps you'd find in stamp packets. The 20 center is obviously creased and I wouldn't have it in my collection. On the 30 center you had to go hunting for an issue on the back, that many average collectors wouldn't even notice. The cancel on this one is strategic and doesn't obscure the stamp design.


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
michael78651

05 Sep 2016
11:06:21am

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

I agree with the others on the 20 cent stamp. The crease does it in. Just FYI, if it were pre-canceled, then it may be of interest to a pre-cancel collector.

The 30 cent stamp is nicely centered. Since the crease is minimally visible (at least it appears so in the scan), and the cancel is not obstructive, someone may want to add it to their collection, but at a substantial discount. Your percentage of 20% of catalog seems reasonable to me. Still, you'll be working up a stamp for sale from which you'll only get a few cents for. You'll have to decide if the effort is worth it to you. However, if the paper is cracked from the back like the 20 cent stamp is from the front, ship it to the project as Carol suggests.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
lemaven

05 Sep 2016
11:30:20am

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Thanks for the extra feedback. I chose these stamps because they showed off the defects I wanted to describe and price accordingly - and to apply consistently across the board. Not necessarily going up for sale. That being said:

1) I toss anything like the 20c unless the CV is at least $1.00 - then I figure someone might want it cheap for a space filler. Interestingly, I already did post a similar stamp with a precancel applying the same logic as did Michael.

2) The 30c is nicely centred and cancelled, and the crease isn't really obvious, but with a CV of just 60c it was on the bubble. I have put it aside with some similar older stamps (or higher CVs with more obvious defects) to accumulate a bunch for a super cheap package.

3) The bottom stamp is more representative of many I'm finding - personally, for something I collect I wouldn't hesitate to take this at a lower price and might (or might not) mark it in my album as a potential candidate for replacement with a better copy. If the face was nice I don't think I'd care about it.


Many thanks again. I think I've got a better handle on the issue. I'll continue to describe as best as possible and price accordingly. Since I'm combining everything to the end of September, selling some stamps for a just a few cents here and there to someone who wants them (probably newer collectors) as part of their overall purchases is still useful for myself as well.

Dave.

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651

05 Sep 2016
11:37:20am

re: Bend vs Crease vs Fold vs ???

Oh, I also meant to add that if the stamp has perforated initials you would not want to toss those either. With perfined stamps, it is the perfin that is of more interest than the condition of the stamp.

As to whether or not you actually do toss, sell, or keep a stamp, that final decision is always left up to the one who owns the stamp.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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