Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Looked in the catalog and they are described as #61(perf 13.1/2) with a note "...imperf were not regularly issued. Values: unused singles, No 61 $30...) with no info on Used values.
The margins are way to big to be trimmed perfs so (pessimistically) I would suspect A) forged stamps B) forged cancellations - although I'm not sure if that would enhance expected values over Mint.
Of course, like most collectors I (optimistically) hope they are not fakes, or good fakes that someone else would appreciate having more than me. {Note to Discussion Moderator: This is not a solicitation to sell}.
Any thoughts from Czechoslovakia experts/others?
Thanks, Dave.
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tha absence of a mention of used, or a value, doesn't preclude their existence
Czechoslovakia was among the most wild-west-like countries in terms of philately. I don't believe any printer's waste ever went into the ovens, but, instead, straight into the secondary markets.
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Michel lists the imperfs. This would be Michel #161a (imperf). Value would be about $50.00.
See above what David said about these and many other Czech stamp remainders, printer's waste, etc.
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"Of course, like most collectors I (optimistically) hope they are not fakes, or good fakes that someone else would appreciate having more than me."
The good news is that this issue unlike the one before and after is not "considered" to have been forged.
The margins need to be about 7mm top & 6mm sides between stamps to not be trimmed stamps and these certainly meet that.
As for the cancels, that is another matter. These are "unfinished stamps", remainders that found their way to collectors in small quantities so cancels are questionable....
The right one, the lettering seems a little crude. You can compare it to a proper Osvetimany cancel from a cover on the left.
On yours, the "O" is not round. the top of the "T" is curved, the right side of the M is curved, the top of the "A" is rounded, the v in the "Y" is too large. I would be inclined to a genuine stamp with a fake cancel.
The major catalogs make no mention of these stamps being in a used state.
The original printers however could have applied cancels in the hopes of increasing their rarity & value as per AMSD's "Wild West" comment or by some chance they were actually used postally.
I would contact the http://www.csphilately.org and put the matter to rest.
You might even have a "RARE" item.
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Thanks Michael & James, very worthwhile feedback.
I'm surprised that that someone would forge a clumsy (?) cancellation that might if detected detract from the value when they could leave the real stamp as is for an undisputed decent value. Or at least do two cancels like the one on the left rather than a practically SON version that can be scrutinized closely.
If I do sell them (probable - but not a solicitation herein) I will make sure to acknowledge the feedback as a buyer caveat, although I suspect (hope!) anyone looking for these would be able to assess their veracity better than I.
Cheers, Dave.
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I have always said that the word "RARE" is used way too often and loosely. A lot (though not all) dealers like to use that word to grab collectors attention
Chimo
Bujutsu
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"the word "RARE" is used way too often and loosely"
That's why its use, and other words like it, is not permitted in the sales platforms here.
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Thankfully The Moderator (apparently) noticed that I said the glassine they were in was marked "Rare", that was not my descriptor (in fact, I made light of it).
I find it incredibly annoying when I see Kijiji ads describe as "rare" either piles of junk or commonplace individual stamps. Don't hate me for this, but I sometimes send an email like:
"I saw your Rare U.S. Elvis stamp advertised. Are you really only selling it for $20? I don't have time to advertise, but I have one exactly like it you can have for just $15 and make a 33% profit instantly. I see yours has a postmark on it. Unfortunately mine hasn't been used yet but if it enhances the rarity I could find something to make a similar mark on it. Can you pay me cash today before the liquor store closes?"
I'll let you use your imagination for the typical responses I get...
Dave. 
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I don't think that you can necessarily conclude that the cancellation is forged. While the cancellation is different to to the original - it is obviously a different cancellation device. You can only positively id a fake when comparing with an original illustration of the same device. Note that the time code on one is a number but on the other is a letter. It could be from a different manufacturer or from a different period used as a reserve cancel.
Please note that I am not saying that it is necessarily genuine either, but in the postmark game things are seldom so simple! To be certain you must be able to compare with multiple examples.
Malcolm
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I don't know about Czech stamps but imperfs were regularly printed to sell to collectors in other central-eastern European countries. It's possible such stamps end up legitimately canceled one way or another (e.g., favor cancel), but not saying that about this issue.
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This time in Czechoslovakia, stamp production was "careless" but was not geared towards western consumption like post-WWII east bloc countries, including CSSR.
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01:34:30am
" ... I have always said that the word "RARE" is used way too often and loosely. ...."
I believe Herman Hearst made fun of some apparently well known auctioneer of the time (1930s) who described a lot as "Unique" and followed it with six or eight lots all "Identical to the previous lot."
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Found these in a separate glassine in THE HOARD today marked "Rare". Overkill on the hyperbole methinks...
Looked in the catalog and they are described as #61(perf 13.1/2) with a note "...imperf were not regularly issued. Values: unused singles, No 61 $30...) with no info on Used values.
The margins are way to big to be trimmed perfs so (pessimistically) I would suspect A) forged stamps B) forged cancellations - although I'm not sure if that would enhance expected values over Mint.
Of course, like most collectors I (optimistically) hope they are not fakes, or good fakes that someone else would appreciate having more than me. {Note to Discussion Moderator: This is not a solicitation to sell}.
Any thoughts from Czechoslovakia experts/others?
Thanks, Dave.
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re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
tha absence of a mention of used, or a value, doesn't preclude their existence
Czechoslovakia was among the most wild-west-like countries in terms of philately. I don't believe any printer's waste ever went into the ovens, but, instead, straight into the secondary markets.
Login to Like
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10:54:54pm
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
Michel lists the imperfs. This would be Michel #161a (imperf). Value would be about $50.00.
See above what David said about these and many other Czech stamp remainders, printer's waste, etc.
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11:36:00pm
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
"Of course, like most collectors I (optimistically) hope they are not fakes, or good fakes that someone else would appreciate having more than me."
The good news is that this issue unlike the one before and after is not "considered" to have been forged.
The margins need to be about 7mm top & 6mm sides between stamps to not be trimmed stamps and these certainly meet that.
As for the cancels, that is another matter. These are "unfinished stamps", remainders that found their way to collectors in small quantities so cancels are questionable....
The right one, the lettering seems a little crude. You can compare it to a proper Osvetimany cancel from a cover on the left.
On yours, the "O" is not round. the top of the "T" is curved, the right side of the M is curved, the top of the "A" is rounded, the v in the "Y" is too large. I would be inclined to a genuine stamp with a fake cancel.
The major catalogs make no mention of these stamps being in a used state.
The original printers however could have applied cancels in the hopes of increasing their rarity & value as per AMSD's "Wild West" comment or by some chance they were actually used postally.
I would contact the http://www.csphilately.org and put the matter to rest.
You might even have a "RARE" item.
Login to Like
this post
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
Thanks Michael & James, very worthwhile feedback.
I'm surprised that that someone would forge a clumsy (?) cancellation that might if detected detract from the value when they could leave the real stamp as is for an undisputed decent value. Or at least do two cancels like the one on the left rather than a practically SON version that can be scrutinized closely.
If I do sell them (probable - but not a solicitation herein) I will make sure to acknowledge the feedback as a buyer caveat, although I suspect (hope!) anyone looking for these would be able to assess their veracity better than I.
Cheers, Dave.
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this post
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
I have always said that the word "RARE" is used way too often and loosely. A lot (though not all) dealers like to use that word to grab collectors attention
Chimo
Bujutsu
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01:57:57pm
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
"the word "RARE" is used way too often and loosely"
That's why its use, and other words like it, is not permitted in the sales platforms here.
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re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
Thankfully The Moderator (apparently) noticed that I said the glassine they were in was marked "Rare", that was not my descriptor (in fact, I made light of it).
I find it incredibly annoying when I see Kijiji ads describe as "rare" either piles of junk or commonplace individual stamps. Don't hate me for this, but I sometimes send an email like:
"I saw your Rare U.S. Elvis stamp advertised. Are you really only selling it for $20? I don't have time to advertise, but I have one exactly like it you can have for just $15 and make a 33% profit instantly. I see yours has a postmark on it. Unfortunately mine hasn't been used yet but if it enhances the rarity I could find something to make a similar mark on it. Can you pay me cash today before the liquor store closes?"
I'll let you use your imagination for the typical responses I get...
Dave.
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05:26:27pm
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
I don't think that you can necessarily conclude that the cancellation is forged. While the cancellation is different to to the original - it is obviously a different cancellation device. You can only positively id a fake when comparing with an original illustration of the same device. Note that the time code on one is a number but on the other is a letter. It could be from a different manufacturer or from a different period used as a reserve cancel.
Please note that I am not saying that it is necessarily genuine either, but in the postmark game things are seldom so simple! To be certain you must be able to compare with multiple examples.
Malcolm
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re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
I don't know about Czech stamps but imperfs were regularly printed to sell to collectors in other central-eastern European countries. It's possible such stamps end up legitimately canceled one way or another (e.g., favor cancel), but not saying that about this issue.
Login to Like
this post
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
This time in Czechoslovakia, stamp production was "careless" but was not geared towards western consumption like post-WWII east bloc countries, including CSSR.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Jul 2016
01:34:30am
re: Czechoslovakia 1920 Imperfs
" ... I have always said that the word "RARE" is used way too often and loosely. ...."
I believe Herman Hearst made fun of some apparently well known auctioneer of the time (1930s) who described a lot as "Unique" and followed it with six or eight lots all "Identical to the previous lot."
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