Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
02:23:34am
What I need is the use of unconventional methods to detect watermarks. I am not able to identify watermarks using conventional methods.
I know there are some members who have played around with software to try to detect watermarks, so any advice would be most welcomed.
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02:34:22am
There is the Morley-Bright watermark detector. A bit tricky to use at first but I used one on the Elizabeth II Wildings with excellent result.
Best of all is that once a copy is produced on the film, it can be scanned and the scan can be added to the album page.
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02:40:40am
Charlie - do you have to have good eyesight to use it?
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Kelly,
I think you might struggle, if your eyesight isn't that great. It does very much depend on the stamp. Some as Charlie suggests, reveal themselves readily. Others don't. The watermark impression that appears can be muddied by the extraneous irregularities in the stamp and can require 'retakes' until one can be sure that it is a watermark. But then no detector is infallible; even the Signoscope T1's and T2's.
I wrote a bit about these in another thread. Here's an extract:
"....... using the Morley Bright Roll-A-Tector and Morley Bright Insta-Tector. These are variations on a theme; a heat welded vinyl sachet containing blue ink..... the stamp is sandwiched between the sachet and a thick plate of glass and a plastic 'spatula' housing a steel roller is then rolled over the sachet.
The ink is concentrated as a darker area where the thinner paper of the watermark lies.
This is all housed in a handy slim little plastic shell (a bit like a miniature pocket cigar case); about 4 inches by 2 inches. Apparently these will detect watermarks on stamps on cover (not tried it myself).
The Insta-Tector is a hinged two part device and uses, instead of the roller: a glass plate, then the ink sachet, a stamp; then a block of plastic. The glass and sachet are set in upper half, through which the watermark will be viewed (or not). The stamp is placed on the lower half, on the plastic block. The top half is closed on the lower half and pressure applied.
These worked pretty well except on those pesky coloured/thick papers.
Nowadays, the ink sachets have deteriorated in quality. The manufacturer, in a pathetic move of meanness, has reduced the amount of ink. So now it's even more difficult to use.
I have resorted to using lighter fuel (petroleum). Probably no better or worse than the others. But again, the dark coloured/thick papers are difficult , if not impossible to detect."
Another problem I've found, is the lack of availability of replacements in the UK (even though these are British products).
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09:19:10pm
Thanks for the detail. Yup, you're right. It's unlikely I'll be able to use that.
Didn't some people play with different photo programs before and find a way to detect a watermark through colour variation, etc. Setting various colour variables in a program. In thinking there must be a way to take a scan and "re-work" it through something like this.
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I remember reading some reference to that. I may be wrong but I would imagine it is more an attribute of the scanner software and not any post-scanning manipulation. I know for certain that my scanner (which is a multi-function type) provides no such bells and whistles; simply colour, B&W and a choice of resolution settings.
Dedicated flatbed scanners probably all provide specialised software for scan enhancement. I know that one of the better Canon scanners does.
No doubt there's a steep learning curve, if this sort of thing is not familiar.
I posted a thread about a week ago about an OTTlite desktop box. I asked if anyone had used one. I found it in Costco and had a little play with it. It is basically a lightbox station for hobbycraft use, with a tilting, opaque flatbed screen which is lit from underneath by LED's, which have 4 brightness settings. I tested it with a £10 banknote and was amazed at the detail it showed, including a very vivid impression of the watermark. I was impressed by the design of the unit as well.
I had hoped someone might have tried it for stamps. I got no reply.
I shall try to test it next time I'm in there, if it's still in stock.
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02:03:11am
Let us know. I don't know if they have them here but I've got a friend who has a Costco membership.
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I have a signoscope T1 and yes it works but for the most part I don't use it. Only because its a process to get the stamps in and out. Normally what I will do is put a group of stamps together of the same type and then if I cannot find the watermark by holding it up to the light I will do a batch in the signoscope. It doesn't always find them but knowing what to look for and doing batches of the same types of watermarks help.
When I pull it out next I will take some photos.
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Jul 2016
02:23:34am
I know this topic has been discussed many times in the past and there has been a general consensus on the best methods to detect watermarks.
What I need is the use of unconventional methods to detect watermarks. I am not able to identify watermarks using conventional methods.
I know there are some members who have played around with software to try to detect watermarks, so any advice would be most welcomed.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Jul 2016
02:34:22am
re: Watermark Identification
There is the Morley-Bright watermark detector. A bit tricky to use at first but I used one on the Elizabeth II Wildings with excellent result.
Best of all is that once a copy is produced on the film, it can be scanned and the scan can be added to the album page.
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Jul 2016
02:40:40am
re: Watermark Identification
Charlie - do you have to have good eyesight to use it?
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this post
re: Watermark Identification
Kelly,
I think you might struggle, if your eyesight isn't that great. It does very much depend on the stamp. Some as Charlie suggests, reveal themselves readily. Others don't. The watermark impression that appears can be muddied by the extraneous irregularities in the stamp and can require 'retakes' until one can be sure that it is a watermark. But then no detector is infallible; even the Signoscope T1's and T2's.
I wrote a bit about these in another thread. Here's an extract:
"....... using the Morley Bright Roll-A-Tector and Morley Bright Insta-Tector. These are variations on a theme; a heat welded vinyl sachet containing blue ink..... the stamp is sandwiched between the sachet and a thick plate of glass and a plastic 'spatula' housing a steel roller is then rolled over the sachet.
The ink is concentrated as a darker area where the thinner paper of the watermark lies.
This is all housed in a handy slim little plastic shell (a bit like a miniature pocket cigar case); about 4 inches by 2 inches. Apparently these will detect watermarks on stamps on cover (not tried it myself).
The Insta-Tector is a hinged two part device and uses, instead of the roller: a glass plate, then the ink sachet, a stamp; then a block of plastic. The glass and sachet are set in upper half, through which the watermark will be viewed (or not). The stamp is placed on the lower half, on the plastic block. The top half is closed on the lower half and pressure applied.
These worked pretty well except on those pesky coloured/thick papers.
Nowadays, the ink sachets have deteriorated in quality. The manufacturer, in a pathetic move of meanness, has reduced the amount of ink. So now it's even more difficult to use.
I have resorted to using lighter fuel (petroleum). Probably no better or worse than the others. But again, the dark coloured/thick papers are difficult , if not impossible to detect."
Another problem I've found, is the lack of availability of replacements in the UK (even though these are British products).
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Jul 2016
09:19:10pm
re: Watermark Identification
Thanks for the detail. Yup, you're right. It's unlikely I'll be able to use that.
Didn't some people play with different photo programs before and find a way to detect a watermark through colour variation, etc. Setting various colour variables in a program. In thinking there must be a way to take a scan and "re-work" it through something like this.
Login to Like
this post
re: Watermark Identification
I remember reading some reference to that. I may be wrong but I would imagine it is more an attribute of the scanner software and not any post-scanning manipulation. I know for certain that my scanner (which is a multi-function type) provides no such bells and whistles; simply colour, B&W and a choice of resolution settings.
Dedicated flatbed scanners probably all provide specialised software for scan enhancement. I know that one of the better Canon scanners does.
No doubt there's a steep learning curve, if this sort of thing is not familiar.
I posted a thread about a week ago about an OTTlite desktop box. I asked if anyone had used one. I found it in Costco and had a little play with it. It is basically a lightbox station for hobbycraft use, with a tilting, opaque flatbed screen which is lit from underneath by LED's, which have 4 brightness settings. I tested it with a £10 banknote and was amazed at the detail it showed, including a very vivid impression of the watermark. I was impressed by the design of the unit as well.
I had hoped someone might have tried it for stamps. I got no reply.
I shall try to test it next time I'm in there, if it's still in stock.
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Jul 2016
02:03:11am
re: Watermark Identification
Let us know. I don't know if they have them here but I've got a friend who has a Costco membership.
Login to Like
this post
re: Watermark Identification
I have a signoscope T1 and yes it works but for the most part I don't use it. Only because its a process to get the stamps in and out. Normally what I will do is put a group of stamps together of the same type and then if I cannot find the watermark by holding it up to the light I will do a batch in the signoscope. It doesn't always find them but knowing what to look for and doing batches of the same types of watermarks help.
When I pull it out next I will take some photos.
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