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Oceania/Australia : Western Australia Help Needed

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d1stamper
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28 Jun 2016
03:36:42pm
I found this stamp of Western Australia, but can not find a catalog number showing Imperforated and in this color.

Any thoughts or help?

Thanks

Doug




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Ningpo
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28 Jun 2016
04:21:33pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Doug, I can't find this in Gibbons. So one may have to consider this may be a forgery.

This may be a good starting point, which is part of a thread on WA forgeries:

WA Swans; a basic guide on how to pick a forgery the easy way

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khj
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28 Jun 2016
05:24:52pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Definite forgery -- even if you aren't sure if the color may be from a proof, in this case the quick test is to look at the bottoms of the "W". On genuine they are both flat. In your example, the left is clearly pointed. Also, the tablet for "POSTAGE" appears solid in your example, which is another indication of forgery. In the genuine, there is a mark to the left of the "P" which looks little bit like a sideways "w".

I didn't go check to see which of the many forgeries it might be. My guess is that it is likely one of the Spiro or Fournier forgeries. Maybe someone can check?

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khj
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28 Jun 2016
05:27:24pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Nice useful link, Ningpo. There are so many Western Australia forgeries out there, so that provided additional info. Thanks!

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
28 Jun 2016
07:36:23pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Since 1840 there have been around 600,000 or a little bit higher stamps issued. Of those, the APS states that about 40,000 have been counterfeited and/or forged. That 40,000 includes a large number of common, minimal valued stamps.

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Winedrinker
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28 Jun 2016
07:41:09pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Does not seem to exist in the Scott catalogue as far as I could see. I also checked my Palo album of Australian States, just as an additional check, and there is no place for it. There are some 1860 imperforate stamps with that design, but they start at 2 pence.

e


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d1stamper
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28 Jun 2016
08:55:42pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Thank you for the help everyone.

Ningpo Thank you for the link to forgeries.

I have concluded it is a forgery of Spiro/Fournier.

I will be keeping it and making a page for this stamp.

Doug

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Ningpo
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28 Jun 2016
09:16:26pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Doug,

If you do create such a page, I think it would be worthwhile posting it here. Although some of us don't collect Australian material, it would be interesting and useful to see how you identified it was a forgery (ignoring the fact that it wasn't listed).

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langtounlad
29 Jun 2016
03:04:40am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

I wonder why everyone thinks this is a forgery.

As the stamp was never issued imperf in this colour why would anyone bother to make a forgery.

Regards
Frank

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
29 Jun 2016
03:29:41am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

I believe it is SG 25 (Orange-Vermilion)

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
khj
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29 Jun 2016
03:47:23am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

I believe SG25 is a 2d stamp. The forgery shown in the original post is 1d.

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khj
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29 Jun 2016
03:49:56am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Forgers make mistakes, get careless, or simply missed a detail. That helps us to identify forgeries.

The mistakes can run the entire spectrum of the production: wrong paper, wrong perforation, missing watermark, design discrepancies, wrong printing method, wrong area/period of use cancels... and even wrong color. The forger isn't trying to fool the experts; the forger is just trying to make the stamp believable to an unsuspecting buyer. Sometimes a forger takes shortcuts by using one denomination as a model, not realizing/caring that there may be very minor design/color differences among the denominations

Incorrect color can be a little trickier because you have to rule out trial color/proofs.

In this case, the design discrepancies characteristic of known forgeries are sufficient to show it is definitely a forgery, without having to check for trial color/proofs.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
29 Jun 2016
07:29:52am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Quote:

"I believe SG25 is a 2d stamp. The forgery shown in the original post is 1d."



Oops!, back to the drawing board.

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
TuskenRaider
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29 Jun 2016
04:56:31pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Could this be a cut square from a postcard or envelope? Some of the margins are kinda wide....
TuskenRaider

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khj
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29 Jun 2016
05:44:25pm
re: Western Australia Help Needed

It is a known forgery. Doug correctly identified it as a Spiro/Fournier forgery as I had originally guessed. It has all the distinguishing characteristics of the known forgery, of which I only mentioned a couple, and it has none of the distinguishing characteristics of the genuine. While normally it is wise to consider cut squares, the design discrepancies are sufficient to prove it is a forgery -- the wide margins are another characteristic of that forgery.

It is a forgery of the perforated 1d rose issued in 1861.


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malcolm197
06 Jul 2016
07:51:41am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Let's face it. A perfect Forgery is an oxymoron. If it were perfect no one could possibly recognise it as a forgery.

Like the perfect murder. No one even knows it has been committed

( Got away with it again, Sherlock....)

Malcolm

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JF0505
06 Jul 2016
11:34:14am
re: Western Australia Help Needed

Quote:

" Of those, the APS states that about 40,000 have been counterfeited and/or forged"


This number is probably on the low side as far as unique stamps go.
Add to this the multiples of any one stamp produced by different forgers or faked with wrong cancels, the number is probably closer to 1,000,000 forgeries/fakes

BTW the stamp originally shown is most probably one created by Spiro but sold by Fournier.
The concentric circles and many other faults are typical of Spiro.
Given that a 1d imperf is not known in this color as langtounlad noted, it may originally have been produced as a "variety" to fool collectors. If so, it might be better noted as a bogus issue.

The flat bottom "U's" or pointed "W's" as with many other forgery traits of other stamps are not always conclusive, Traherne, Winter and a few others got the U and W right

There are at least 50 forgeries of the swan issues produced by at least 10 different forgers with probably some of the best ones made by Peter Winter some 35 years ago.

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