Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Hi,I suspect that these are forgeries or reprints, but maybe one of you will confirm or tell me that they are the real ones and worth the full $7,700 in CV. Buenos Aires 1//8
David
Login to Like
this post
Hi,
Here are some genuine Buenos Aires stamps from the rare stamp gallery pages on the Sandafayre Auctions site:
https://www.sandafayre.com/rarestamps/rareargentinastamps.html
If you click on one of the stamps it opens up in a small window and if you mouse over this you get a magnified view.
Login to Like
this post
The originals are typographed from a woodcut with a size of 22mm x 18.5mm. The forgeries are lithographed, and there are about twenty varieties. The originals are transparent, while most of the counterfeits are not. (Serrane Guide)
Even if you rule out forgery, the cliches (accent on last "e") were stolen and reprints were made. While there are some color and paper differences associated with the reprints, the images will be correct. If you think you have an original, it is best to have it expertized.
Login to Like
this post
thanks Michael, so you're saying the original paper was akin to onion skin or some other non-opaque paper? Scott indicates a range of original papers, depending on the denomination, if I remember correctly.
do you know if the typography would be sufficiently intense to leave an indent? I don't know another way to distinguish between typograph and lithograph.
David
Login to Like
this post
I think that the originals will be on a thinner paper than the forgeries. All the forgeries that I have seen through the years have been on a somewhat thick coarse (rough) paper.
Lithographed stamps have a clear image, while typographed stamps have rough impressions (heavier lines). A good example of the different printing types is the 1923-1933 San Martin definitives from Argentina (Scott #340-356, and 343b-351a).
The Serrane Guide has a long list of attributes to use to examine the stamps. Some of those are confusing due to the translation from French to English. I wish that when the book was translated that they would not have made it so literal.
I have misplaced my "Album Weeds". It's in CD format, so it's hiding in a pile. I'm trying to find it. When I do I'll look through it and see if it gives any better help.
Login to Like
this post
thanks; I can't imagine that they would be anything but forgeries, but one never knows.
Login to Like
this post
They look like the ones I have, which I was pretty confident were forgeries. When I researched them, the genuine ones were printed close together, and mine had too big of margins to be real.
Login to Like
this post
I found the CD. The section for these stamps in "Album Weeds" runs for 9 pages and covers up to 9 forgery types for each stamp.
"Album Weeds" contradicts "The Serrane Guide". It says that the original and forgeries were printed by lithography, and on thick paper.
One significant characteristic of the forgeries versus the genuine stamps is the position of the bow spirit in relation to the top level of the sea.
In the genuine stamps, the bow spirit is below the top level of the sea. In the forgeries, the bow spirit is above the top level of the sea.
In the images of your stamps, it clearly shows the bow spirit above the top level of the sea, making these all forgeries.
Login to Like
this post
while not THE answer I was looking for, Michael, having AN answer was precisely what I wanted. thank you so much. I'm calling my local Maserati dealer right now to cancel the Ghibli; maybe I can find one of Phil's old Metropolitans
Login to Like
this post
One of these days, someone is going to post an ID question on a stamp that could be suspect, and it'll turn out to be the real thing!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi,
I suspect that these are forgeries or reprints, but maybe one of you will confirm or tell me that they are the real ones and worth the full $7,700 in CV. Buenos Aires 1//8
David
Login to Like
this post
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
Hi,
Here are some genuine Buenos Aires stamps from the rare stamp gallery pages on the Sandafayre Auctions site:
https://www.sandafayre.com/rarestamps/rareargentinastamps.html
If you click on one of the stamps it opens up in a small window and if you mouse over this you get a magnified view.
Login to Like
this post
03:38:33pm
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
The originals are typographed from a woodcut with a size of 22mm x 18.5mm. The forgeries are lithographed, and there are about twenty varieties. The originals are transparent, while most of the counterfeits are not. (Serrane Guide)
Even if you rule out forgery, the cliches (accent on last "e") were stolen and reprints were made. While there are some color and paper differences associated with the reprints, the images will be correct. If you think you have an original, it is best to have it expertized.
Login to Like
this post
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
thanks Michael, so you're saying the original paper was akin to onion skin or some other non-opaque paper? Scott indicates a range of original papers, depending on the denomination, if I remember correctly.
do you know if the typography would be sufficiently intense to leave an indent? I don't know another way to distinguish between typograph and lithograph.
David
Login to Like
this post
11:57:41am
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
I think that the originals will be on a thinner paper than the forgeries. All the forgeries that I have seen through the years have been on a somewhat thick coarse (rough) paper.
Lithographed stamps have a clear image, while typographed stamps have rough impressions (heavier lines). A good example of the different printing types is the 1923-1933 San Martin definitives from Argentina (Scott #340-356, and 343b-351a).
The Serrane Guide has a long list of attributes to use to examine the stamps. Some of those are confusing due to the translation from French to English. I wish that when the book was translated that they would not have made it so literal.
I have misplaced my "Album Weeds". It's in CD format, so it's hiding in a pile. I'm trying to find it. When I do I'll look through it and see if it gives any better help.
Login to Like
this post
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
thanks; I can't imagine that they would be anything but forgeries, but one never knows.
Login to Like
this post
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
They look like the ones I have, which I was pretty confident were forgeries. When I researched them, the genuine ones were printed close together, and mine had too big of margins to be real.
Login to Like
this post
09:44:25pm
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
I found the CD. The section for these stamps in "Album Weeds" runs for 9 pages and covers up to 9 forgery types for each stamp.
"Album Weeds" contradicts "The Serrane Guide". It says that the original and forgeries were printed by lithography, and on thick paper.
One significant characteristic of the forgeries versus the genuine stamps is the position of the bow spirit in relation to the top level of the sea.
In the genuine stamps, the bow spirit is below the top level of the sea. In the forgeries, the bow spirit is above the top level of the sea.
In the images of your stamps, it clearly shows the bow spirit above the top level of the sea, making these all forgeries.
Login to Like
this post
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
while not THE answer I was looking for, Michael, having AN answer was precisely what I wanted. thank you so much. I'm calling my local Maserati dealer right now to cancel the Ghibli; maybe I can find one of Phil's old Metropolitans
Login to Like
this post
12:58:16pm
re: help with my Buenes Aires stamps
One of these days, someone is going to post an ID question on a stamp that could be suspect, and it'll turn out to be the real thing!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.