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General Philatelic/Supplies, Literature & Software : Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

 

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Snick1946
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APS Life Member

16 May 2016
03:42:22pm
What is it about some Postal History dealers that makes them so darned unfriendly and condescending when you encounter them at shows? I do not collect much PH but sometimes enjoy looking through their wares to look for interesting, colorful cover to dress up some of my country collections. It sometimes feels like they think I am wasting their time.

Recently I was at a major show- not mentioning the show or the dealer but I stopped at this guy's table, he was not busy- and asked if he had any French covers showing postal usages of French Art stamps. His reply was to grab a wad of covers, put them in a box, push it toward me and say "Maybe you need to go try the kid's table". I did find about $50 worth, paid with cash and never got a thank you.

The guy is a major dealer and I've seen him at other shows. Possibly he was just having a bad day. I didn't take it personally, in fact it seems funny now. It seems to be a branch of the hobby I just cannot fathom or understand. Maybe dealers in this area find some of us equally hard to understand..

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fredcdobbs
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APS # 224327

16 May 2016
04:17:38pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I would have taken his advice.

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philatelia
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16 May 2016
04:33:14pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Yeah - walk away and take your money with you. THAT they understand! As a woman some dealers would treat you disparagingly - I used to get so ticked when they would ask me if I collected 'flowers or butterflies or kittens.' Arghh!!! Thumbs Down Trust me, they didn't get a plug nickel from my wallet!

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DavidG
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APS member since 2004

16 May 2016
06:43:51pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I feel for you... and I WORK for a stamp dealer!

I was at a show a few years ago and asked the dealers (who advertised in the show programme that they carried worldwide stamps) if they had any Costa Rica. Two of them just laughed at me! The others, very politely, showed me what they had or said they didn't have any; which was fine.

David

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Snick1946
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APS Life Member

16 May 2016
08:45:53pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Although it doesn't excite me, postal history is fine. It is not the be all and end all of philately that some of its more fervent affectionados seem to think.

A couple years ago I dropped membership in a specialty society. as in most cases, their journal was the main benefit of belonging and 80% or more of the content each month was PH. The last straw was an issue that consisted almost entirely of an esoteric article on WWII submarine censorship markings. I honestly couldn't make heads nor tails of much of it.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

16 May 2016
09:52:04pm

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re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

ah, poor postal historians. We suffer through obscure articles on censorship (perhaps it was encrypted using Enigma, itself captured from a submarine) and surly dealers all in the hopes of finding something fairly moth eaten and musty that merely hints at the dealings between someone's spinster aunt and the merchant's cousin, late of the Third US Dragoons, about half a bolt of gingham.

Luckily, I find the last living enjoyable PH dealer who has bargain material with which I can spend a day and rack up the same $50 and go home with a Cheshire cat smile.

as with most things, there's good ones and bad ones. cherish the former and avoid the latter


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HungaryForStamps
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17 May 2016
04:38:16pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I'm seriously wondering why anyone goes to shows anymore if this is the typical attitude of dealers. Perhaps the dealers are the biggest impediment to generating renewed interest in the hobby.

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Snick1946
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17 May 2016
08:17:14pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

There was another dealer at this show that I'd planned to check in with as he carried some things I collect. I wound up not doing so. Every time I went toward his table he was sitting there like a statue. His body language was screaming GET AWAY. I went there two days, I think I saw about a dozen customers stop at his table.

The dealers who were doing well were all being friendly; gosh you think there's a connection?

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vinman
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17 May 2016
09:47:56pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I have experienced this type of behavior from a few dealers at shows but it is definitely not the norm. I have been to many shows in the last twenty five years and have been on the board of directors of The Philadelphia National Stamp Exhibition for twenty of those years and most of our dealers were pleasant to deal with.
When I come across the odd dealer who is rude or condescending I just move on to the next dealer. There have been times where I was ready to make my purchase and the dealer tries to get flip with me, I have no problem walking away. Money talks.
Vince

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BermudaSailor
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17 May 2016
10:58:15pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Snick,

Some people just shouldn't be in retail. It makes me wonder how this stoic dealer can cover his booth costs, much less make a living selling stamps, etc.

David

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

18 May 2016
08:17:34am

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re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Let's reward good behavior, and good stock at good prices, with our business.


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ikeyPikey
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18 May 2016
12:31:11pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

"... Some people just shouldn't be in retail ..."



There is this insane balance between sober reserve and open greeting ... insane because every person coming at the booth has different needs & expectations.

The friendly dealer can make me feel that he is about to grab at my clothes and drag me into the booth.

The withdrawn dealer can make me feel like there is an open social space around his stock, and I am free to look, even if I should show my wallet before I ask a question.

I think that the best practice is for the exhibitor to count to ten; anyone looking for 5-10 seconds gets a greeting & an open-ended question.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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18 May 2016
01:07:38pm

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re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Appearances can be deceiving.

I sat on the "other" side of that table for a few years back in the mid 80's and early 90's and stamp collectors require sales skills outside the realm of what one is normally taught. Stamp collectors tend to be more introverted than people engaging in other hobbies.

The first show I did I would always ask a prospective customer "How may I help you?". Innocent question and cited by many "How to sell" guides as the quintessential greeting. To my dismay many customers either mumbled something unintelligible and walked briskly away or said nothing. At my second show an elderly gentleman sat down and proceeded to go through my books and pull out about $20 worth of stamps, obviously chosen for centering and/or cancellations.

After his purchase he thanked me for offering a nice selection of material and suggested that perhaps I might wish to change my greeting to "If there is anything I can do to help you, please let me know". He told me that greeting did not require a response, whereas "How may I help you" did and most collectors just want to be left alone.

It was a great piece of advice and suddenly I had a very busy table. He was my best customer for years - and he always added to my knowledge base. After a few weeks he brought in a part of his collection - a full set of VF+ lightly cancelled Columbians - complete. The colors were incredible. He said that he had been collecting for a very long time and he thought I might like to see what a nice set of used Columbians was supposed to look like.

So remember that that grumpy old person behind the counter may just be responding the best way he knows how to what is a fairly difficult audience. Sometimes all it takes is sitting down and starting a conversation with them, sometimes nothing works but it is worth a try.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

18 May 2016
08:13:03pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

"The dealers who were doing well were all being friendly; gosh you think there's a connection? "



I chuckle because I see the same thing in every hobby. Remember that hobbies attract odd folks! I'm sure we all have a few stories!
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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

19 May 2016
02:26:07am
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

".... He told me that greeting did not require a response, whereas "How may I help you" did and most collectors just want to be left alone. ...."

That reminds me of something I would explain to salesmen when I was the New York regional manager for SUN Electric. In closing a sale, never ask the prospect what they think, or thought, about the analyzers and their use. Thinking often causes a person to man the battlements, raise the mental drawbridge and prepare to defend their position to the death.
Instead, ask the customer how he, or she, feels about the SUN equipment's utility. Feelings can be changed, abandoned or modified more easily.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

19 May 2016
10:12:42am
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

when I was a realtor, the sales training taught you only to ask questions that would be answered "Yes". Isn't this a nice home? Can you picture your kids playing in this yard? Wouldn't you like to live in a neighborhood like this? The key was to build a trail of "yes", so that when you got to the final Would you like to buy this home? you had already trained them to say "yes".

Doesn't apply to stamps, but just sharing!

As a stamp dealer, I would acknowledge everyone with a smile and hello. And leave it at that until they engaged or asked a question. And I don't care if they collect snot on stamps, what ever they like is the best thing you could possibly collect!

Just like the example of the stamp dealer making a snide comment, that happens in my model car world. There was a hobby shop where the owner was a known military modeler. I was working on an old pickup truck where I had to do some scratch building, so I had maybe $50 worth of plastic building supplies on the counter. The owner asked me "What are we scratch building today?" When I told him, his face fell and he made a remark about wasting my time on cars. I responded by saying, "Then I won't waste your supplies." Turned around and walked out. And I have discouraged every car modeler I know to avoid the shop. I vote with my wallet.

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olfogey

08 Jun 2016
12:15:26pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Me......being old & grumpy at times myself, would have told him to go straight to "heck" - (G rated for family use).

I, in my younger days, used to do a lot of coin buying & selling as a sideline, although I never collected.
Can't tell you how many dealers I ran across that just DID NOT want to give you the "time of day" unless you had a wad of cash to throw at them.

Those, I just self labeled as "elitists", and never had another thing to do with them.

I figure if they don't want to earn my business with a little common courtesy, I don't need their crap....................


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malcolm197

26 Jun 2016
12:31:05pm
re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I was surprised by the comment about always asking a question which required the answer yes.I suppose having the customer in the house meant that they were halfway sold anyway.

I worked for a time in retail travel. We were always taught to ask "open" questions which required the potential customer to answer other than yes or no, thus revealing their actual requirements rather than what they thought we could offer.

The office I worked was heavily involved in long-distance bus travel ( on the Greyhound model) and the tendency was for the customer to only request big-city to big -city travel when in fact we could often offer (almost) door to door service, certainly small village to small village via connection. It required a certain skill to extract the details of the actual journey being made, but when the transaction was finally made it often led to the customer thinking that you were the best thing since sliced bread.

The other mantra that was offered to me was "All you have to be to succeed is to be nice to people" - an over simplification but not a million miles from the truth.

Malcolm

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
16 May 2016
03:42:22pm

What is it about some Postal History dealers that makes them so darned unfriendly and condescending when you encounter them at shows? I do not collect much PH but sometimes enjoy looking through their wares to look for interesting, colorful cover to dress up some of my country collections. It sometimes feels like they think I am wasting their time.

Recently I was at a major show- not mentioning the show or the dealer but I stopped at this guy's table, he was not busy- and asked if he had any French covers showing postal usages of French Art stamps. His reply was to grab a wad of covers, put them in a box, push it toward me and say "Maybe you need to go try the kid's table". I did find about $50 worth, paid with cash and never got a thank you.

The guy is a major dealer and I've seen him at other shows. Possibly he was just having a bad day. I didn't take it personally, in fact it seems funny now. It seems to be a branch of the hobby I just cannot fathom or understand. Maybe dealers in this area find some of us equally hard to understand..

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fredcdobbs

APS # 224327
16 May 2016
04:17:38pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I would have taken his advice.

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philatelia

16 May 2016
04:33:14pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Yeah - walk away and take your money with you. THAT they understand! As a woman some dealers would treat you disparagingly - I used to get so ticked when they would ask me if I collected 'flowers or butterflies or kittens.' Arghh!!! Thumbs Down Trust me, they didn't get a plug nickel from my wallet!

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DavidG

APS member since 2004
16 May 2016
06:43:51pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I feel for you... and I WORK for a stamp dealer!

I was at a show a few years ago and asked the dealers (who advertised in the show programme that they carried worldwide stamps) if they had any Costa Rica. Two of them just laughed at me! The others, very politely, showed me what they had or said they didn't have any; which was fine.

David

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"President, The Society for Costa Rica Collectors"
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Snick1946

APS Life Member
16 May 2016
08:45:53pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Although it doesn't excite me, postal history is fine. It is not the be all and end all of philately that some of its more fervent affectionados seem to think.

A couple years ago I dropped membership in a specialty society. as in most cases, their journal was the main benefit of belonging and 80% or more of the content each month was PH. The last straw was an issue that consisted almost entirely of an esoteric article on WWII submarine censorship markings. I honestly couldn't make heads nor tails of much of it.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
16 May 2016
09:52:04pm

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re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

ah, poor postal historians. We suffer through obscure articles on censorship (perhaps it was encrypted using Enigma, itself captured from a submarine) and surly dealers all in the hopes of finding something fairly moth eaten and musty that merely hints at the dealings between someone's spinster aunt and the merchant's cousin, late of the Third US Dragoons, about half a bolt of gingham.

Luckily, I find the last living enjoyable PH dealer who has bargain material with which I can spend a day and rack up the same $50 and go home with a Cheshire cat smile.

as with most things, there's good ones and bad ones. cherish the former and avoid the latter


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HungaryForStamps

17 May 2016
04:38:16pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I'm seriously wondering why anyone goes to shows anymore if this is the typical attitude of dealers. Perhaps the dealers are the biggest impediment to generating renewed interest in the hobby.

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
17 May 2016
08:17:14pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

There was another dealer at this show that I'd planned to check in with as he carried some things I collect. I wound up not doing so. Every time I went toward his table he was sitting there like a statue. His body language was screaming GET AWAY. I went there two days, I think I saw about a dozen customers stop at his table.

The dealers who were doing well were all being friendly; gosh you think there's a connection?

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vinman

17 May 2016
09:47:56pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I have experienced this type of behavior from a few dealers at shows but it is definitely not the norm. I have been to many shows in the last twenty five years and have been on the board of directors of The Philadelphia National Stamp Exhibition for twenty of those years and most of our dealers were pleasant to deal with.
When I come across the odd dealer who is rude or condescending I just move on to the next dealer. There have been times where I was ready to make my purchase and the dealer tries to get flip with me, I have no problem walking away. Money talks.
Vince

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BermudaSailor

17 May 2016
10:58:15pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Snick,

Some people just shouldn't be in retail. It makes me wonder how this stoic dealer can cover his booth costs, much less make a living selling stamps, etc.

David

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
18 May 2016
08:17:34am

Auctions

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Let's reward good behavior, and good stock at good prices, with our business.


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ikeyPikey

18 May 2016
12:31:11pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

"... Some people just shouldn't be in retail ..."



There is this insane balance between sober reserve and open greeting ... insane because every person coming at the booth has different needs & expectations.

The friendly dealer can make me feel that he is about to grab at my clothes and drag me into the booth.

The withdrawn dealer can make me feel like there is an open social space around his stock, and I am free to look, even if I should show my wallet before I ask a question.

I think that the best practice is for the exhibitor to count to ten; anyone looking for 5-10 seconds gets a greeting & an open-ended question.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

18 May 2016
01:07:38pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Appearances can be deceiving.

I sat on the "other" side of that table for a few years back in the mid 80's and early 90's and stamp collectors require sales skills outside the realm of what one is normally taught. Stamp collectors tend to be more introverted than people engaging in other hobbies.

The first show I did I would always ask a prospective customer "How may I help you?". Innocent question and cited by many "How to sell" guides as the quintessential greeting. To my dismay many customers either mumbled something unintelligible and walked briskly away or said nothing. At my second show an elderly gentleman sat down and proceeded to go through my books and pull out about $20 worth of stamps, obviously chosen for centering and/or cancellations.

After his purchase he thanked me for offering a nice selection of material and suggested that perhaps I might wish to change my greeting to "If there is anything I can do to help you, please let me know". He told me that greeting did not require a response, whereas "How may I help you" did and most collectors just want to be left alone.

It was a great piece of advice and suddenly I had a very busy table. He was my best customer for years - and he always added to my knowledge base. After a few weeks he brought in a part of his collection - a full set of VF+ lightly cancelled Columbians - complete. The colors were incredible. He said that he had been collecting for a very long time and he thought I might like to see what a nice set of used Columbians was supposed to look like.

So remember that that grumpy old person behind the counter may just be responding the best way he knows how to what is a fairly difficult audience. Sometimes all it takes is sitting down and starting a conversation with them, sometimes nothing works but it is worth a try.

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
18 May 2016
08:13:03pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

"The dealers who were doing well were all being friendly; gosh you think there's a connection? "



I chuckle because I see the same thing in every hobby. Remember that hobbies attract odd folks! I'm sure we all have a few stories!
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Login to Like
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 May 2016
02:26:07am

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

".... He told me that greeting did not require a response, whereas "How may I help you" did and most collectors just want to be left alone. ...."

That reminds me of something I would explain to salesmen when I was the New York regional manager for SUN Electric. In closing a sale, never ask the prospect what they think, or thought, about the analyzers and their use. Thinking often causes a person to man the battlements, raise the mental drawbridge and prepare to defend their position to the death.
Instead, ask the customer how he, or she, feels about the SUN equipment's utility. Feelings can be changed, abandoned or modified more easily.

Like
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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
19 May 2016
10:12:42am

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

when I was a realtor, the sales training taught you only to ask questions that would be answered "Yes". Isn't this a nice home? Can you picture your kids playing in this yard? Wouldn't you like to live in a neighborhood like this? The key was to build a trail of "yes", so that when you got to the final Would you like to buy this home? you had already trained them to say "yes".

Doesn't apply to stamps, but just sharing!

As a stamp dealer, I would acknowledge everyone with a smile and hello. And leave it at that until they engaged or asked a question. And I don't care if they collect snot on stamps, what ever they like is the best thing you could possibly collect!

Just like the example of the stamp dealer making a snide comment, that happens in my model car world. There was a hobby shop where the owner was a known military modeler. I was working on an old pickup truck where I had to do some scratch building, so I had maybe $50 worth of plastic building supplies on the counter. The owner asked me "What are we scratch building today?" When I told him, his face fell and he made a remark about wasting my time on cars. I responded by saying, "Then I won't waste your supplies." Turned around and walked out. And I have discouraged every car modeler I know to avoid the shop. I vote with my wallet.

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olfogey

08 Jun 2016
12:15:26pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

Me......being old & grumpy at times myself, would have told him to go straight to "heck" - (G rated for family use).

I, in my younger days, used to do a lot of coin buying & selling as a sideline, although I never collected.
Can't tell you how many dealers I ran across that just DID NOT want to give you the "time of day" unless you had a wad of cash to throw at them.

Those, I just self labeled as "elitists", and never had another thing to do with them.

I figure if they don't want to earn my business with a little common courtesy, I don't need their crap....................


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malcolm197

26 Jun 2016
12:31:05pm

re: Another Grumpypants Postal History Dealer

I was surprised by the comment about always asking a question which required the answer yes.I suppose having the customer in the house meant that they were halfway sold anyway.

I worked for a time in retail travel. We were always taught to ask "open" questions which required the potential customer to answer other than yes or no, thus revealing their actual requirements rather than what they thought we could offer.

The office I worked was heavily involved in long-distance bus travel ( on the Greyhound model) and the tendency was for the customer to only request big-city to big -city travel when in fact we could often offer (almost) door to door service, certainly small village to small village via connection. It required a certain skill to extract the details of the actual journey being made, but when the transaction was finally made it often led to the customer thinking that you were the best thing since sliced bread.

The other mantra that was offered to me was "All you have to be to succeed is to be nice to people" - an over simplification but not a million miles from the truth.

Malcolm

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