Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I put in three bids on items, all closing within 10 hours, my maximum bids were some three times current bids.
All were rejected by ebay with the following statement
Rovatron Status:
eBay wants to contact customer via telephone to confirm identity
Bearing in mind that they already have a telephone number for my account I feel confused.Is this a usual approach?
I previously had the 5th. item blocked by the seller, ( not the same seller as above) I won the other 4 items and they were sent without any message.
Has anyone else had this problem or know of a reason or have an answer?
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On a previous snipe bid I was asked by my vendor to provide a "human verification" response (like a CAPTCHA code) that they attributed to an eBay requirement. My guess is that eBay is making it harder for automated sniping applications to work. They may be doing so because of some nefarious actions or the perceived "unfairness" of sniping.
Lars
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09:06:00pm
In what way is sniping unfair?
I understand how someone who seems safely to be ahead on a bid may be unhappy 7o lose out, but how is it unfair ?
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I have never thought of it as being unfair in any way, merely a way of putting in a last minute bid when I would otherwise be working or unable to watch an item to the last.
I am always happy to put in a good bid and quite often do not win everything I have bid upon. It seems to take away the possibility of schill (is that the correct term?)bidding where a seller using a different isp address or maybe the grey web bids up his own items, or gets someone else to so do.
I also bid on a number of other sites where maximum bids are the order of the day, I set a limit and win some, lose a lot.
Just seemed strange to me that they wanted a 'phone number when they already have one unless the sniping system does not use my ebay user name, but items won do show the correct user.
Thanks all for your replies.
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"perceived "unfairness""
I don't see anything unfair about it. I use it like I use an agent when I'm bidding in brick and mortar auction firms. I give them my highest bid and leave it at that. The big difference with a sniping service it lets me adjust my bids up to the end of the auction without much hassle.
I have been using a sniping service for quite a few years now and haven't had a problem with ebay questioning my bids.
Vince
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11:41:35pm
My question was;
"In what way is sniping unfair?"
In general, it seems to be unpopular, for instance, our delayed closing system essentially eliminates the practice which I always found to be exhilarating..
I can understand why one on-line, live auction leaves lots open until there has been 30 minutes without any further bids, it is to their advantage to have ever higher bids.
While the topic seems to be citing restrictions on automated sniping the under current seems to be:
" .... They may be doing so because of some nefarious actions or the perceived "unfairness" of sniping. ....", any kind of sniping is unfair z???
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sniping is NOT unfair if everyone has equal access to it.
I have never been a fan of it, which has nothing to do with fairness, and consequently designed our auctions to be sniping-free zones.
I am, however, seeing lots of cyber shops trying to level playing fields, and there may be some sniping programs out there that somehow trump others....
as TooTallPines might oPine
Just speculatin....
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If your bid depends on another bid is not a good way to purchase something. Bid the highest you pay and do not look back.
Al
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I agree that you should bid the highest amount you are happy to pay but to get the best deals you should snipe, i.e. bid this as late as you can in the auction.
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Sniping (which I don't do myself) never bothers me. Using eBay's automatic bidding system, I always enter the very highest price I'm willing to pay for an item, and not a penny more. If win, often it is far below my bid ceiling. Great! If I lose, that's fine; a penny more would have been more than I would be willing to spend. I'm happy for the winner: they won the item at a price they were willing pay. It doesn't matter to me if that winning bid was manual, automatic (eBay system), or "robotic" (sniper app).
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"sniping is NOT unfair if everyone has equal access to it. "
Bingo! Everyone who has computer access to eBay, also has equal access to sniping tools.
The self "moral high ground" folks aren't all that true and honest. What I read is that they are seething with jealousy that they do not have the computer skills / understanding to use the tools themselves!
Many years ago there was a model car dealer who openly called anyone who used eBay "immoral, greedy and out to ruin the hobby"! He wouldn't even sell me a model at a club meeting because I was one of those greedy evil-bay users. This guy had no computer access, no cell phone and prided himself on this.
Eventually his daughter showed him how to use a PC and sell on eBay. He's one of the biggest dealers in the category today. My point.
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The purpose of snipping to get something at a lower price because some buyers do not want o bid what they ultimately would pay if the bidding was delayed like the bidding closes 5 minutes after the last bid - there is no going once, going twice, sold...
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Ebay is designed for sniping by not having a delayed closing system and by implementing auto-bidding in increments. Using the system as designed is nothing but fair and I see absolutely no incentive to bid earlier.
I usually bid in the last 3 seconds for anything serious, and of course, conversely will never bid before that. I always determine the maximum price I am willing to pay, which can often be time consuming, particularly if the lot is a collection. (I have been known to bid in the last 20 seconds, without these preliminaries, on a whim).
Besides the design-motivated rationalization above, I believe my reasons are twofold.
First, I have no desire to disclose my maximum bid information to the general public or Ebay until absolutely necessary. Other folks are free to make their own determinations of value or whatever they do and can show their hand early if they please.
Second, the main purpose of determining a maximum price is to avoid emotional bidding. Bidding in the last 3 seconds by a sniping bot removes all emotion from the enterprise.
Further, with EBay auto-bidding, its unnecessary, and even a waste of valuable time, to continually revisit the auction and raise bids over a period of days. This only stokes the emotional bidding of others, which sometimes results in ridiculous final prices.
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Bingo! I have mine set for a 6 second snipe. Use the tools and modern conveniences that are offered!
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I have in the past found other people sniping to be annoying. You put what you think is a fair and reasonable max bid on an item and can be the highest bidder until the last 3 seconds, only to find yourself outbid simultaneously by multiple bids with no time for recourse.
Time to rethink the strategy...
Ebay is NOT an auction site. It is a tender site. The person with the highest tender at closing gets to make a deal with the seller.
As such, 'bidding' until the very end does not make any sense as the tender offered is not secret. Any bidding before close only serves to show other bidders your hand and jack up the price.
You have to decide what you highest bid for an item is and in the last few seconds (as close to closing time as your internet speed will allow) hit the "send bid" button. You have only one chance to make a max bid, so make it the highest you are willing to go so as to outbid the other annoying snipers doing exactly what you are doing. I do not use a service, just sit there waiting.
Another advantage of bidding at the end is that if an item goes past what you are willing to pay, you know not to make a bid at all.
Is all this fair, absolutely, as anyone bidding can do exactly the same. Also, the auction closing time is set. If you are not allowed to bid right up to closing time, then why have a closing time at all?
Obviously Ebay could do a lot to level the playing field. Allow for a time extension where if the last bid is higher than the current price, the time is extended for another minute perhaps. Or allow for a secret tender section which is unseen by everyone but the tenderer and only comes into play once the auction has closed.
At the end of the day, if you can't beat them, join them! It is the only real choice you have based on the system in play.
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I have been out bid many times by other snipers, not because they snipped my bid but they had a higher bid. They were willing to pay more then me. That's the way it works. It's really a simple system. If you want to own a certain item be the highest bidder. If you want to sit in front of your computer and hope to be able to snipe a bid manually at the last second that's your business. I bid on many different items and they all close at different times so a sniping program is the answer for me.
Vince
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" If you want to sit in front of your computer and hope to be able to snipe a bid manually at the last second that's your business. I bid on many different items and they all close at different times so a sniping program is the answer for me."
I should look into a sniping program. I missed out on an auction I would have easily have won (no bidders) but for the fact I did not get up at 3am. When the item was relisted, it went for more than I was willing to pay and that time I did get up early to watch it.
What program do you use?
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I have been using esnipe since they started and were free. They do charge a small fee for items that you win but not for items you lost. You will need to give them your ebay information, ID and password. There are other programs but I have only used esnipe. If I can be further assistance let me know.
Since ebay is international the closing times can be any time. It depends on where the item is located.
Vince
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I use Gixen. It is a free basic sniper that has worked well for me.
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The sniping comes from the hard closing time.
The hard closing time comes from eBay wanting you to buy more often.
With amsd's temporally indeterminate system - the item stays available until X hours go by without a bid - an auction could drag on for days & days.
The longer an auction is open, the longer people do not turn-away to bid on something else.
The hard closing time is a distortion that induces another distortion ... sniping.
But it is what's best for eBay.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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"I have been using esnipe since they started and were free. They do charge a small fee for items that you win but not for items you lost. You will need to give them your ebay information, ID and password. There are other programs but I have only used esnipe. If I can be further assistance let me know. "
Same here. I buy $10 worth of their "bid points" probably about once a year. Seriously worth it for the service!
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I've been using AuctionSniper.com for many years and have been very satisfied with their service also. They also charge a small fee for winning bids, but nothing for those you lose. Like a couple of the above posters, I prefer to bid it and forget it, then wait for the notice from them, telling me if I won or lost.
Mike
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"Not only does it snipe the buy, but it also has an algorithm built in (as I understand it anyway...) that processes multiple bids and retractions (no idea how that works!) at something over 100 per second for the last 10 seconds of the auction. It totally jams other sniping programs as they can't connect until this one completes the last-second buy and the auction has ended."
If that program does indeed function this way, by effectively blocking other bidders from executing bids, it would be in violation of eBay's terms and conditions. Frankly, I would hope that the creators and anyone using such a program would be permanently banned from eBay.
I doubt such a program actually exists. Either you won because you really were the high bidder or you're blowing smoke up everyone's keesters.
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Well glad that others have had good fortune with the various sniping programs. I received an email tonight from esnipe the gist of which follows:-
eBay has tightened some of their security measures which, in turn, has caused some eSnipe bids to be missed. You may also have difficulties updating your eBay information on eSnipe. We are seeing bids missed for ‘eBay username/password error’ and ‘eBay wants to contact customer via telephone to confirm identity’. These are separate issues, but are both related to eBay’s heightened security.
The email contained instructions to follow to hopefully correct the situation. These I have followed and put in a few random bids to allow for checking.
I have also added the items to my watch list and will also put in auto bids for the same amount nearer the end time. Then it is wait and see.
Mind you we will probably all lose out now to Lemaven's super dooper program, but I guess we could just send him our requests and an open cheque, what commission would he charge I wonder.
Good luck to all fellow snipers.
Vic
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I put in my top number, and if someone outbids me, so be it. I don't need an algorithm to tell me what my top number is. I do understand the temptation, as I use multiple add-odds when I play World of Warcraft. I keep it simple when it comes to real money though, which isn't to say I don't spend too much money and make bad decisions.
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"which isn't to say I don't spend too much money and make bad decisions"
Been there often enough, but I guess while the moolah is in our pocket or bank it's value is depreciating so sooner spent most saved. Crazy logic, maybe, though if we all hold off buying for 20 years the prices will come down due to over supply or is that wishful thinking?
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I seriously doubt that such a program exists. I know ebay would put an end to it. If it blocks bids then ebay and the seller lose. I am not a lawyer or expert in commerce but I think interfering or rigging an auction is illegal.
Vince
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It is certainly possible that someone created snipe+DOS (Denial of Service) software.
If they use it often enough, they will get caught & blocked.
And it is nothing to take pride in, Dave.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Man who assume role of moral compass, often loose own way.
WB
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"All were rejected by ebay with the following statement
Rovatron Status:
eBay wants to contact customer via telephone to confirm identity
Bearing in mind that they already have a telephone number for my account I feel confused.Is this a usual approach?"
Within the past week I got nearly the same message, with eBay blocking my bid. I lost two really good items I would've won at nice prices.
The first time eSnipe reported that my eBay password must've changed, so they made me redo my password on their site. I even went to eBay and checked that the same password worked. I got in several bids after that, no problem. I just wrote that off as a glitch.
Last week I got an email from eBay stating that it had been a year since I updated my account information. I ignored it because nothing about me has changed in the past year.
This morning I had a bid blocked with the notation that eBay required that I put in a phone number. So I went to my account and saw I had a phone number there. Then it popped up that a "phone PIN number" was required. What? I guess that's if I ever need to phone them, not that I have ever done so in my 20 years on their site!
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Just to be clear, when I wrote
"perceived "unfairness" of sniping"
please note the word unfairness in quotations. There is nothing unfair about sniping, but there are some folks that perceive it that way (and sure enough, someone stepped up and gave voice to that view). I think sniping is the only way to bid on eBay! If you have ever been nibbled to death then you know why. I try to snipe manually if it's really important, but I usually set up an automated snipe first with EZsniper. If the auction ends at 3 a.m. or it's storming and I might lose power or some emergency causes me to be unable to snipe manually, the automatic snipe is set up.
Lars
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My prime motivation for sniping is to make a single bid at the maximum price I am willing to pay. There is absolutely no reason to bid early in the auction as I will never raise my bid. How is that "unfair"?
To those that think using computer programs is unfair consider this. I often snipe manually in the last 5 seconds, but sometimes I use a sniping program to enter the bid in the last 20 seconds. So when I do it manually (closer to the closing time) it is "fair" and above board, but when I use the program its "unfair".
Perhaps its just unfair to bid anytime in the last 20 seconds, or is it 30 seconds. When exactly does it become unfair for me to enter my single bid?
Systems that extend the closing time if a bid comes in just before the close don't have to be completely annoying. I've seen systems that extend the closing time by only 30 seconds. This is pretty much equivalent to a live auction. Those systems are a pleasure to use and ensure that sniping will not work.
Ebay could easily implement such a system. The fact they haven't indicates that encouraging sniping is either by design or at least an accepted side-effect of the design. So, using a software auction platform, as designed, is unfair when its used in some indeterminate period of time before the close.
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More often than not the real competition comes in the last 10 seconds anyway. It's more like a sealed bid than anything else in those situations. I put in what I'm willing to pay and see what happens.
Why not do that at the beginning of the auction? Because there are some emotional buyers that have no idea what items are worth. I was going to be away from a computer (before iPhones) one afternoon and placed my best bid on a MH 4th Bureau US 573 that morning. $80. Almost 100% of CV because the vignette was also nicely centered. When I got home (after the auction closed) I saw that I was high bidder with an hour or two to go when someone bid $51, then $56, then $61, then $66, then $71, then $76, then $81. They were a low feedback buyer and likely had no idea what that stamp was really worth, but every time my automatic bid outbid them, they decided they wanted the stamp even more.
I'm not saying that I should have gotten that stamp for $50, there was probably already a sniper bid out there for at least $65. But I would have won that auction had I used a sniper software bid instead. That's why I have been using it since. Once you've been nibbled to death, you will understand.
Lars
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Here's some classic nibbling, note that the bidder s***d went at finding the top TEN times at $5 increments! The auction was for a US #1 on cover that I was watching.
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That nibble bidding just looks like someone else pushing the price up to the maximum auto bid of the other buyer. My guess is that "s**d" is an account connected to the seller. Once s**d has been outbidded, the auto bid price will have maxed out and it would be reasonable to assume that if done early enough, that the buyer will make at least one more bid, after all "it is only another $5". You will notice that once s**d outbidded the competition, he/she made no further bids.
Another really good reason to bid only at the end and the last few seconds.
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I agree Damichab. Very often the nibbler (schiller) bids an amount just under a rounded up figure (in this case $200). A genuine bidder is usually prepared initially to go above this figure by a few dollars, as has happened here. Sometimes it's satisfying to strand a nibbler as the top bidder by not conforming to his/her expectations.
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"Very often the nibbler (schiller) bids an amount just under a rounded up figure"
I never bid a "rounded up" figure and I don't shill bid, so such behavior proves nothing.
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HungaryForStamps,
I was not referring to your bidding behaviour and never suggested you were a schill bidder.
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"I never bid a "rounded up" figure and I don't shill bid, so such behavior proves nothing."
This is one of the most friendly forums I have ever been a part of. Except for the friendly jibing from time to time, absolutely nothing here is meant offensively.
But looking at that bidding record, something is suspicious. Too obviously so to be ignored.
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So quick to accuse!
eBay has software that detects shills so it's pretty much non-existent today. Note that the nibbler has 1885 feedback and nobody would risk an ID like that.
In the old days you could spot shills (back when you saw full IDs) as low feedback, recently started accounts, that had only interfaced with one seller.
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"... something is suspicious. Too obviously so to be ignored ..."
In a friendly jibing sort of way - the thread on sniping seems to have led to a bit of sniping - howzabout "somebody wanted the stamp, kept returning to the auction, and kept bidding higher ... until they stopped bidding?"
Crystal balling the motivation of a bid sequence? Seriously?
Yes, there are shills, but seeing a shill in a single bid sequence is like proving climate change (or not) from a single day's weather.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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i am among those who occasionally nibble, here and elsewhere (but never at the dinner table, where I'm definitely ALL in), and don't find the nibbling example odd in the least. To me, that's just a guy who, like me, hoped to get it at X but figured what's another couple of bucks on top of X.
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It all boils down to the same thing, the item goes to the high bidder. Snipe, shill or manual bid, does it really matter how it goes? Simply put, somebody wanted it worse or had deeper pockets then you did. It's a game, games are supposed to be fun. Play the game within the rules, bid with your conscience and winner take all.
WB
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"... hoped to get it at X but figured what's another couple of bucks on top of X ..."
There is a fallacy underlying the 'pick your max price, and stick to it' advice, and that is that we are all price-takers.
When we set 'our' max price of, say, U$D 240, that number comes from the prices at which that stamp has sold before. We are price-takers.
When we see that bidding on that stamp on that day has risen to U$D 250, it is entirely correct for us to absorb this new price information, and it is perfectly permissible for us to bid higher.
The risk comes when we personalize the other bidders - I'm gonna beat that guy, I'm not gonna let him defeat me, etc - which is exactly the same mental error as reading shill behavior into a single bid stream (above).
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey (whose favorite self-inflicted bidding wounds have come soon after he has asked himself "just how high did this other guy set his max bid?")
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Ikey,
What you say it true, but I don't consider a collection of unknown Ebay bidders on one auction enough evidence for me that the value has changed. We are all free to bid how we want. I bid once with maximum price because that's what I like to do - and I don't include Ebay prices in my estimate of value. No fallacy involved.
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Oldmanemu,
When I stated the following,
"I never bid a 'rounded up' figure and I don't shill bid, so such behavior proves nothing"
I was simply stating that you can't identify shill bidders by whether they bid round numbers or not. By saying "I don't shill bid" that "proves" there is at least one person that doesn't bid round numbers when bidding legitimately (me).
I was not implying that your statement impugned my behavior. I have way thicker skin than that. I'd have to be really thin-skinned to see any judgement about MY behavior in your statement. So no problem at all...
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Bidding for many is not just a simple decision. It is an emotional decision.. Some have no idea what they will pay and do it by impulse.
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"Bidding for many is not just a simple decision. It is an emotional decision.. Some have no idea what they will pay and do it by impulse."
I prefer to be on the receiving end of those deals!
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This lengthy and fascinating thread has somehow escaped the attention of the moderator, dealing as it does with online auction practice - whether in stamps or model cars or anything else presumably would not change the various points raised and discussed.
The other Ian, several posts above, made a comment (entirely ignored) which might set the thread in a cultural context: the American thrill to the Art of the Deal, the attempt to extract something (stamp, model car) at the lowest possible price, thereby demonstrating superiority over (a) others in the same game, and (b) the Dealer. Incidentally, the attempts at finessing the ethics of the Snipe (where some practices are OK, some not, or maybe all OK, or maybe not) reveal much about character, though whether personal or national I cannot decide. We in England or Scotland (let the two Ians speak for the nations since nobody else has) stand amazed.
It has nothing, of course, to do with stamps! You play a financial internet game - the stamps are entirely incidental, hence my surprise at the inclusion of this thread under 'General Philatelic'. However, I'll include the image below to render the whole thing more appropriate. Here is a proper sniper...
...into whose sights even the toughest of you guys would not have wished to get!
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I feel your pain and disdain for America and everything about America. It's all a conspiracy to take over the world and I think the moderators are in on it. I'm still going to build my collection one snipe at a time though.
Vince
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So now the Moderators are under attack for what we call here in the USA "Freedom of Speech". That, I realize a lot of the world doesn't have and maybe we shouldn't have it here sometimes, from some of the comments coming from the respondents. This is an open forum and all are certainly welcome to participate, or not, which would be a better choice for some, without the mention of name, country of origin, race or political affiliation.
But then again, this is just two cents worth of MHHO.
Mike
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I don't see culture as an issue here at all. My motivation for bidding on an item has nothing to do with getting something over on the dealer and other bidders. I bid to purchase something at a proper value, determined by me, based on published literature. I have limited funds so this method is important to me.
No one on the anti-snipe side has answered my question, which I will repeat. If I will only make a single bid on an auction (at the max price at which I value the item), how close to the end of the auction am I allowed to make that bid for it to remain a fair practice? Is 30 seconds okay, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 1 day or must I disclose my bid 6 days in advance so others can bid after me?
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Madness! What is it with you guys?
"I feel your pain and disdain for America and everything about America."
What on earth are you talking about, vinman! Here's a thread all about internet auction tactics and you turn it into an attack on your country? The mere mention of the Art of the Deal is some sort of conspiracy?
My point is that, fascinating to a non-American though sniper-talk is, it's in the wrong place on the DB, as it has only tangentially to do with philately. Did I not make that clear? What that has to do with "Freedom of Speech" heaven only knows.
I do wish there was more discussion, opinion and information about stamps, though.
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Guthrum,
This is what you posted.
" the American thrill to the Art of the Deal, the attempt to extract something (stamp, model car) at the lowest possible price, thereby demonstrating superiority over (a) others in the same game, and (b) the Dealer. Incidentally, the attempts at finessing the ethics of the Snipe (where some practices are OK, some not, or maybe all OK, or maybe not) reveal much about character, though whether personal or national I cannot decide."
Did you or did you not write this? Americans demonstrating superiority over others. If I snipe it revels much about my character, personal or national. Since you single out Americans and nationality in the next sentence I can only come to the conclusion that it is Americans you have a problem with sniping.
Let's be honest here. This is not your first post about your feelings about America. I'm just calling you on your anti-American sentiment.
This thread was started about auction sniping not military sniping.
Vince
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Not to venture into a dog fight, which I have done before and got bit. But this may have escalated beyond what it should have.
Eric
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"In all seriousness:- Auctions should be FUN."
For me eBay auctions are a game. I set my sights on acquiring a specific piece, whether it be a stamp, model car or other collectible, and then I play the game of bidding on them and seeing how I do.
For instance I started looking for mint condition late 19th century / early 20th century commemoratives. I decided I wanted to pay no more than $6.66 for any one. So that's what I started to bid. 90% of the time I get outbid, and sometimes by a great margin. That's okay. Every so often I score! It's a fun game.
A few years ago I wanted to get a 1950 Ford panel van diecast. I'd see them at shows for $50 or more and didn't want to pay that much. I started bidding on them on eBay, with a maximum bid of $25. I'd bid on auctions with less than 24 hrs to go, I find it a waste of time to bid on those with a week left to go... of course through my sniping service not to show my hand.
I'd bid one auction at a time and see the results. One went for $60, one for $45 another for $40. I got impatient and saw three auctions all on the same day. So I bid my $25 on all three reasoning I'd never win one anyway. Well this is what happened... ya never know!
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BenFranklin1902,
It seems you may have found the secret to winning auctions. Go beyond your senses and/or budget and win all the prizes. I did the same recently, knowing I couldn't possibly win both, but did, to my pleasant surprise. A Finland 6a with small tear, with a couple of perf issues and GB #2, with the sides cut very close, but too nice to pass up.
Mike
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Earlier today was Victorious on some used (very used) King Edward VII definitives for $7.81. Despite the heavy cancellations I think I did good. Several will be fillers, but even so!
My technique is always the same, which is I never bid a sum which will make me cringe if I happen to win. I was willing to go up to 10 bucks on this collection.
Just got back into the game, so I may not be as smart as I think I am.
Cheers,
Eric
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Guthrum said:
" ...the attempts at finessing the ethics of the Snipe... reveal much about character"
So the use of a snipe tool is a character issue??
He goes on to say:
"It has nothing, of course, to do with stamps! You play a financial internet game - the stamps are entirely incidental"
It has EVERYTHING to do with stamps! People want to acquire the stamps at the lowest possible price!
Methinks me British mate is pissed on a little too much Beefeater...
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01:36:30am
As long as stamps are offered in open auctions,
how one bids, what method of bidding is being used
and the possible motivation of the bidders
is germane to stamping, just as any other issue is
from kinds of collecting, Mint vs used, etc.,
to topics or countries selected are.
Making a point with courtesy and avoiding over reaction are not optional.
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I agree, Charlie! There's no reason to criticize someone for holding a sincere opinion about sniping.
I understand how some may consider sniping to somehow be undignified and others (like me) consider it an important tool in acquiring stamps at the best price on eBay.
For me, the epiphany came when I realized that eBay is not an online auction. It's an online sealed bid process. Placing your best and final bid before the final few seconds puts you at a distinct disadvantage. If eBay changed the rules to extend the auction every time a new higher bid came along, I would bid differently.
I just play by the rules established by the game, and try to maximize the number of stamps I can acquire within my budget. Simple as that.
Lars
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02:40:42pm
I always found it exciting, especially when three or four lots closed at about 3pm, all within seconds of one another.
I'd have three or four screens open plus another with the clock and second hand ticking away. A wordpad scree also open with notes about my plans and the amount I was willing to offer.
To me it was a game with winners and losers, the thrill of the hunt and often the exultation of the kill.
I do miss it here, but this is a club and mostly among friends.
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I was a victim of fellow snipers on an auction that just finished up. I immediately thought of this thread, so here it is...
This auction ended at 9:43:56. Note all the bids that came in the last few seconds of the auction. I was actually sitting here and manually did the snipe. When I hit "Send" with 6 seconds to go my $11 bid seemed like a sure thing since the $8 bid was showing. The final winning bid came in with a single second to go. No doubt that bidder would have paid more, but that's the amount it took to win, one increment over the highest bidder.
And this is bidding on a friggin low value stamp! Am I upset I lost? No, that's what I wanted to pay and if others wanted it more, so be it. There will be another auction for the same stamp and I'll continue to bid my amount until I win one. And it will happen eventually. All part of the game. I'd rather play this game of chance than go to Atlantic City!
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I'm a little mystified over recent bids on ebay using a sniping service that I have used for the past year.
I put in three bids on items, all closing within 10 hours, my maximum bids were some three times current bids.
All were rejected by ebay with the following statement
Rovatron Status:
eBay wants to contact customer via telephone to confirm identity
Bearing in mind that they already have a telephone number for my account I feel confused.Is this a usual approach?
I previously had the 5th. item blocked by the seller, ( not the same seller as above) I won the other 4 items and they were sent without any message.
Has anyone else had this problem or know of a reason or have an answer?
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re: sniping query
On a previous snipe bid I was asked by my vendor to provide a "human verification" response (like a CAPTCHA code) that they attributed to an eBay requirement. My guess is that eBay is making it harder for automated sniping applications to work. They may be doing so because of some nefarious actions or the perceived "unfairness" of sniping.
Lars
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
28 Apr 2016
09:06:00pm
re: sniping query
In what way is sniping unfair?
I understand how someone who seems safely to be ahead on a bid may be unhappy 7o lose out, but how is it unfair ?
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re: sniping query
I have never thought of it as being unfair in any way, merely a way of putting in a last minute bid when I would otherwise be working or unable to watch an item to the last.
I am always happy to put in a good bid and quite often do not win everything I have bid upon. It seems to take away the possibility of schill (is that the correct term?)bidding where a seller using a different isp address or maybe the grey web bids up his own items, or gets someone else to so do.
I also bid on a number of other sites where maximum bids are the order of the day, I set a limit and win some, lose a lot.
Just seemed strange to me that they wanted a 'phone number when they already have one unless the sniping system does not use my ebay user name, but items won do show the correct user.
Thanks all for your replies.
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re: sniping query
"perceived "unfairness""
I don't see anything unfair about it. I use it like I use an agent when I'm bidding in brick and mortar auction firms. I give them my highest bid and leave it at that. The big difference with a sniping service it lets me adjust my bids up to the end of the auction without much hassle.
I have been using a sniping service for quite a few years now and haven't had a problem with ebay questioning my bids.
Vince
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
28 Apr 2016
11:41:35pm
re: sniping query
My question was;
"In what way is sniping unfair?"
In general, it seems to be unpopular, for instance, our delayed closing system essentially eliminates the practice which I always found to be exhilarating..
I can understand why one on-line, live auction leaves lots open until there has been 30 minutes without any further bids, it is to their advantage to have ever higher bids.
While the topic seems to be citing restrictions on automated sniping the under current seems to be:
" .... They may be doing so because of some nefarious actions or the perceived "unfairness" of sniping. ....", any kind of sniping is unfair z???
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re: sniping query
sniping is NOT unfair if everyone has equal access to it.
I have never been a fan of it, which has nothing to do with fairness, and consequently designed our auctions to be sniping-free zones.
I am, however, seeing lots of cyber shops trying to level playing fields, and there may be some sniping programs out there that somehow trump others....
as TooTallPines might oPine
Just speculatin....
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re: sniping query
If your bid depends on another bid is not a good way to purchase something. Bid the highest you pay and do not look back.
Al
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re: sniping query
I agree that you should bid the highest amount you are happy to pay but to get the best deals you should snipe, i.e. bid this as late as you can in the auction.
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re: sniping query
Sniping (which I don't do myself) never bothers me. Using eBay's automatic bidding system, I always enter the very highest price I'm willing to pay for an item, and not a penny more. If win, often it is far below my bid ceiling. Great! If I lose, that's fine; a penny more would have been more than I would be willing to spend. I'm happy for the winner: they won the item at a price they were willing pay. It doesn't matter to me if that winning bid was manual, automatic (eBay system), or "robotic" (sniper app).
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re: sniping query
"sniping is NOT unfair if everyone has equal access to it. "
Bingo! Everyone who has computer access to eBay, also has equal access to sniping tools.
The self "moral high ground" folks aren't all that true and honest. What I read is that they are seething with jealousy that they do not have the computer skills / understanding to use the tools themselves!
Many years ago there was a model car dealer who openly called anyone who used eBay "immoral, greedy and out to ruin the hobby"! He wouldn't even sell me a model at a club meeting because I was one of those greedy evil-bay users. This guy had no computer access, no cell phone and prided himself on this.
Eventually his daughter showed him how to use a PC and sell on eBay. He's one of the biggest dealers in the category today. My point.
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re: sniping query
The purpose of snipping to get something at a lower price because some buyers do not want o bid what they ultimately would pay if the bidding was delayed like the bidding closes 5 minutes after the last bid - there is no going once, going twice, sold...
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re: sniping query
Ebay is designed for sniping by not having a delayed closing system and by implementing auto-bidding in increments. Using the system as designed is nothing but fair and I see absolutely no incentive to bid earlier.
I usually bid in the last 3 seconds for anything serious, and of course, conversely will never bid before that. I always determine the maximum price I am willing to pay, which can often be time consuming, particularly if the lot is a collection. (I have been known to bid in the last 20 seconds, without these preliminaries, on a whim).
Besides the design-motivated rationalization above, I believe my reasons are twofold.
First, I have no desire to disclose my maximum bid information to the general public or Ebay until absolutely necessary. Other folks are free to make their own determinations of value or whatever they do and can show their hand early if they please.
Second, the main purpose of determining a maximum price is to avoid emotional bidding. Bidding in the last 3 seconds by a sniping bot removes all emotion from the enterprise.
Further, with EBay auto-bidding, its unnecessary, and even a waste of valuable time, to continually revisit the auction and raise bids over a period of days. This only stokes the emotional bidding of others, which sometimes results in ridiculous final prices.
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re: sniping query
Bingo! I have mine set for a 6 second snipe. Use the tools and modern conveniences that are offered!
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re: sniping query
I have in the past found other people sniping to be annoying. You put what you think is a fair and reasonable max bid on an item and can be the highest bidder until the last 3 seconds, only to find yourself outbid simultaneously by multiple bids with no time for recourse.
Time to rethink the strategy...
Ebay is NOT an auction site. It is a tender site. The person with the highest tender at closing gets to make a deal with the seller.
As such, 'bidding' until the very end does not make any sense as the tender offered is not secret. Any bidding before close only serves to show other bidders your hand and jack up the price.
You have to decide what you highest bid for an item is and in the last few seconds (as close to closing time as your internet speed will allow) hit the "send bid" button. You have only one chance to make a max bid, so make it the highest you are willing to go so as to outbid the other annoying snipers doing exactly what you are doing. I do not use a service, just sit there waiting.
Another advantage of bidding at the end is that if an item goes past what you are willing to pay, you know not to make a bid at all.
Is all this fair, absolutely, as anyone bidding can do exactly the same. Also, the auction closing time is set. If you are not allowed to bid right up to closing time, then why have a closing time at all?
Obviously Ebay could do a lot to level the playing field. Allow for a time extension where if the last bid is higher than the current price, the time is extended for another minute perhaps. Or allow for a secret tender section which is unseen by everyone but the tenderer and only comes into play once the auction has closed.
At the end of the day, if you can't beat them, join them! It is the only real choice you have based on the system in play.
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re: sniping query
I have been out bid many times by other snipers, not because they snipped my bid but they had a higher bid. They were willing to pay more then me. That's the way it works. It's really a simple system. If you want to own a certain item be the highest bidder. If you want to sit in front of your computer and hope to be able to snipe a bid manually at the last second that's your business. I bid on many different items and they all close at different times so a sniping program is the answer for me.
Vince
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re: sniping query
" If you want to sit in front of your computer and hope to be able to snipe a bid manually at the last second that's your business. I bid on many different items and they all close at different times so a sniping program is the answer for me."
I should look into a sniping program. I missed out on an auction I would have easily have won (no bidders) but for the fact I did not get up at 3am. When the item was relisted, it went for more than I was willing to pay and that time I did get up early to watch it.
What program do you use?
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re: sniping query
I have been using esnipe since they started and were free. They do charge a small fee for items that you win but not for items you lost. You will need to give them your ebay information, ID and password. There are other programs but I have only used esnipe. If I can be further assistance let me know.
Since ebay is international the closing times can be any time. It depends on where the item is located.
Vince
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11:28:08pm
re: sniping query
I use Gixen. It is a free basic sniper that has worked well for me.
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re: sniping query
The sniping comes from the hard closing time.
The hard closing time comes from eBay wanting you to buy more often.
With amsd's temporally indeterminate system - the item stays available until X hours go by without a bid - an auction could drag on for days & days.
The longer an auction is open, the longer people do not turn-away to bid on something else.
The hard closing time is a distortion that induces another distortion ... sniping.
But it is what's best for eBay.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: sniping query
"I have been using esnipe since they started and were free. They do charge a small fee for items that you win but not for items you lost. You will need to give them your ebay information, ID and password. There are other programs but I have only used esnipe. If I can be further assistance let me know. "
Same here. I buy $10 worth of their "bid points" probably about once a year. Seriously worth it for the service!
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re: sniping query
I've been using AuctionSniper.com for many years and have been very satisfied with their service also. They also charge a small fee for winning bids, but nothing for those you lose. Like a couple of the above posters, I prefer to bid it and forget it, then wait for the notice from them, telling me if I won or lost.
Mike
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re: sniping query
"Not only does it snipe the buy, but it also has an algorithm built in (as I understand it anyway...) that processes multiple bids and retractions (no idea how that works!) at something over 100 per second for the last 10 seconds of the auction. It totally jams other sniping programs as they can't connect until this one completes the last-second buy and the auction has ended."
If that program does indeed function this way, by effectively blocking other bidders from executing bids, it would be in violation of eBay's terms and conditions. Frankly, I would hope that the creators and anyone using such a program would be permanently banned from eBay.
I doubt such a program actually exists. Either you won because you really were the high bidder or you're blowing smoke up everyone's keesters.
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re: sniping query
Well glad that others have had good fortune with the various sniping programs. I received an email tonight from esnipe the gist of which follows:-
eBay has tightened some of their security measures which, in turn, has caused some eSnipe bids to be missed. You may also have difficulties updating your eBay information on eSnipe. We are seeing bids missed for ‘eBay username/password error’ and ‘eBay wants to contact customer via telephone to confirm identity’. These are separate issues, but are both related to eBay’s heightened security.
The email contained instructions to follow to hopefully correct the situation. These I have followed and put in a few random bids to allow for checking.
I have also added the items to my watch list and will also put in auto bids for the same amount nearer the end time. Then it is wait and see.
Mind you we will probably all lose out now to Lemaven's super dooper program, but I guess we could just send him our requests and an open cheque, what commission would he charge I wonder.
Good luck to all fellow snipers.
Vic
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re: sniping query
I put in my top number, and if someone outbids me, so be it. I don't need an algorithm to tell me what my top number is. I do understand the temptation, as I use multiple add-odds when I play World of Warcraft. I keep it simple when it comes to real money though, which isn't to say I don't spend too much money and make bad decisions.
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"which isn't to say I don't spend too much money and make bad decisions"
Been there often enough, but I guess while the moolah is in our pocket or bank it's value is depreciating so sooner spent most saved. Crazy logic, maybe, though if we all hold off buying for 20 years the prices will come down due to over supply or is that wishful thinking?
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re: sniping query
I seriously doubt that such a program exists. I know ebay would put an end to it. If it blocks bids then ebay and the seller lose. I am not a lawyer or expert in commerce but I think interfering or rigging an auction is illegal.
Vince
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re: sniping query
It is certainly possible that someone created snipe+DOS (Denial of Service) software.
If they use it often enough, they will get caught & blocked.
And it is nothing to take pride in, Dave.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: sniping query
Man who assume role of moral compass, often loose own way.
WB
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re: sniping query
"All were rejected by ebay with the following statement
Rovatron Status:
eBay wants to contact customer via telephone to confirm identity
Bearing in mind that they already have a telephone number for my account I feel confused.Is this a usual approach?"
Within the past week I got nearly the same message, with eBay blocking my bid. I lost two really good items I would've won at nice prices.
The first time eSnipe reported that my eBay password must've changed, so they made me redo my password on their site. I even went to eBay and checked that the same password worked. I got in several bids after that, no problem. I just wrote that off as a glitch.
Last week I got an email from eBay stating that it had been a year since I updated my account information. I ignored it because nothing about me has changed in the past year.
This morning I had a bid blocked with the notation that eBay required that I put in a phone number. So I went to my account and saw I had a phone number there. Then it popped up that a "phone PIN number" was required. What? I guess that's if I ever need to phone them, not that I have ever done so in my 20 years on their site!
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re: sniping query
Just to be clear, when I wrote
"perceived "unfairness" of sniping"
please note the word unfairness in quotations. There is nothing unfair about sniping, but there are some folks that perceive it that way (and sure enough, someone stepped up and gave voice to that view). I think sniping is the only way to bid on eBay! If you have ever been nibbled to death then you know why. I try to snipe manually if it's really important, but I usually set up an automated snipe first with EZsniper. If the auction ends at 3 a.m. or it's storming and I might lose power or some emergency causes me to be unable to snipe manually, the automatic snipe is set up.
Lars
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re: sniping query
My prime motivation for sniping is to make a single bid at the maximum price I am willing to pay. There is absolutely no reason to bid early in the auction as I will never raise my bid. How is that "unfair"?
To those that think using computer programs is unfair consider this. I often snipe manually in the last 5 seconds, but sometimes I use a sniping program to enter the bid in the last 20 seconds. So when I do it manually (closer to the closing time) it is "fair" and above board, but when I use the program its "unfair".
Perhaps its just unfair to bid anytime in the last 20 seconds, or is it 30 seconds. When exactly does it become unfair for me to enter my single bid?
Systems that extend the closing time if a bid comes in just before the close don't have to be completely annoying. I've seen systems that extend the closing time by only 30 seconds. This is pretty much equivalent to a live auction. Those systems are a pleasure to use and ensure that sniping will not work.
Ebay could easily implement such a system. The fact they haven't indicates that encouraging sniping is either by design or at least an accepted side-effect of the design. So, using a software auction platform, as designed, is unfair when its used in some indeterminate period of time before the close.
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re: sniping query
More often than not the real competition comes in the last 10 seconds anyway. It's more like a sealed bid than anything else in those situations. I put in what I'm willing to pay and see what happens.
Why not do that at the beginning of the auction? Because there are some emotional buyers that have no idea what items are worth. I was going to be away from a computer (before iPhones) one afternoon and placed my best bid on a MH 4th Bureau US 573 that morning. $80. Almost 100% of CV because the vignette was also nicely centered. When I got home (after the auction closed) I saw that I was high bidder with an hour or two to go when someone bid $51, then $56, then $61, then $66, then $71, then $76, then $81. They were a low feedback buyer and likely had no idea what that stamp was really worth, but every time my automatic bid outbid them, they decided they wanted the stamp even more.
I'm not saying that I should have gotten that stamp for $50, there was probably already a sniper bid out there for at least $65. But I would have won that auction had I used a sniper software bid instead. That's why I have been using it since. Once you've been nibbled to death, you will understand.
Lars
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re: sniping query
Here's some classic nibbling, note that the bidder s***d went at finding the top TEN times at $5 increments! The auction was for a US #1 on cover that I was watching.
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re: sniping query
That nibble bidding just looks like someone else pushing the price up to the maximum auto bid of the other buyer. My guess is that "s**d" is an account connected to the seller. Once s**d has been outbidded, the auto bid price will have maxed out and it would be reasonable to assume that if done early enough, that the buyer will make at least one more bid, after all "it is only another $5". You will notice that once s**d outbidded the competition, he/she made no further bids.
Another really good reason to bid only at the end and the last few seconds.
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07:55:23pm
re: sniping query
I agree Damichab. Very often the nibbler (schiller) bids an amount just under a rounded up figure (in this case $200). A genuine bidder is usually prepared initially to go above this figure by a few dollars, as has happened here. Sometimes it's satisfying to strand a nibbler as the top bidder by not conforming to his/her expectations.
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re: sniping query
"Very often the nibbler (schiller) bids an amount just under a rounded up figure"
I never bid a "rounded up" figure and I don't shill bid, so such behavior proves nothing.
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05:24:39am
re: sniping query
HungaryForStamps,
I was not referring to your bidding behaviour and never suggested you were a schill bidder.
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re: sniping query
"I never bid a "rounded up" figure and I don't shill bid, so such behavior proves nothing."
This is one of the most friendly forums I have ever been a part of. Except for the friendly jibing from time to time, absolutely nothing here is meant offensively.
But looking at that bidding record, something is suspicious. Too obviously so to be ignored.
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So quick to accuse!
eBay has software that detects shills so it's pretty much non-existent today. Note that the nibbler has 1885 feedback and nobody would risk an ID like that.
In the old days you could spot shills (back when you saw full IDs) as low feedback, recently started accounts, that had only interfaced with one seller.
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re: sniping query
"... something is suspicious. Too obviously so to be ignored ..."
In a friendly jibing sort of way - the thread on sniping seems to have led to a bit of sniping - howzabout "somebody wanted the stamp, kept returning to the auction, and kept bidding higher ... until they stopped bidding?"
Crystal balling the motivation of a bid sequence? Seriously?
Yes, there are shills, but seeing a shill in a single bid sequence is like proving climate change (or not) from a single day's weather.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: sniping query
i am among those who occasionally nibble, here and elsewhere (but never at the dinner table, where I'm definitely ALL in), and don't find the nibbling example odd in the least. To me, that's just a guy who, like me, hoped to get it at X but figured what's another couple of bucks on top of X.
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It all boils down to the same thing, the item goes to the high bidder. Snipe, shill or manual bid, does it really matter how it goes? Simply put, somebody wanted it worse or had deeper pockets then you did. It's a game, games are supposed to be fun. Play the game within the rules, bid with your conscience and winner take all.
WB
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re: sniping query
"... hoped to get it at X but figured what's another couple of bucks on top of X ..."
There is a fallacy underlying the 'pick your max price, and stick to it' advice, and that is that we are all price-takers.
When we set 'our' max price of, say, U$D 240, that number comes from the prices at which that stamp has sold before. We are price-takers.
When we see that bidding on that stamp on that day has risen to U$D 250, it is entirely correct for us to absorb this new price information, and it is perfectly permissible for us to bid higher.
The risk comes when we personalize the other bidders - I'm gonna beat that guy, I'm not gonna let him defeat me, etc - which is exactly the same mental error as reading shill behavior into a single bid stream (above).
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey (whose favorite self-inflicted bidding wounds have come soon after he has asked himself "just how high did this other guy set his max bid?")
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re: sniping query
Ikey,
What you say it true, but I don't consider a collection of unknown Ebay bidders on one auction enough evidence for me that the value has changed. We are all free to bid how we want. I bid once with maximum price because that's what I like to do - and I don't include Ebay prices in my estimate of value. No fallacy involved.
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re: sniping query
Oldmanemu,
When I stated the following,
"I never bid a 'rounded up' figure and I don't shill bid, so such behavior proves nothing"
I was simply stating that you can't identify shill bidders by whether they bid round numbers or not. By saying "I don't shill bid" that "proves" there is at least one person that doesn't bid round numbers when bidding legitimately (me).
I was not implying that your statement impugned my behavior. I have way thicker skin than that. I'd have to be really thin-skinned to see any judgement about MY behavior in your statement. So no problem at all...
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re: sniping query
Bidding for many is not just a simple decision. It is an emotional decision.. Some have no idea what they will pay and do it by impulse.
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re: sniping query
"Bidding for many is not just a simple decision. It is an emotional decision.. Some have no idea what they will pay and do it by impulse."
I prefer to be on the receiving end of those deals!
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re: sniping query
This lengthy and fascinating thread has somehow escaped the attention of the moderator, dealing as it does with online auction practice - whether in stamps or model cars or anything else presumably would not change the various points raised and discussed.
The other Ian, several posts above, made a comment (entirely ignored) which might set the thread in a cultural context: the American thrill to the Art of the Deal, the attempt to extract something (stamp, model car) at the lowest possible price, thereby demonstrating superiority over (a) others in the same game, and (b) the Dealer. Incidentally, the attempts at finessing the ethics of the Snipe (where some practices are OK, some not, or maybe all OK, or maybe not) reveal much about character, though whether personal or national I cannot decide. We in England or Scotland (let the two Ians speak for the nations since nobody else has) stand amazed.
It has nothing, of course, to do with stamps! You play a financial internet game - the stamps are entirely incidental, hence my surprise at the inclusion of this thread under 'General Philatelic'. However, I'll include the image below to render the whole thing more appropriate. Here is a proper sniper...
...into whose sights even the toughest of you guys would not have wished to get!
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re: sniping query
I feel your pain and disdain for America and everything about America. It's all a conspiracy to take over the world and I think the moderators are in on it. I'm still going to build my collection one snipe at a time though.
Vince
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re: sniping query
So now the Moderators are under attack for what we call here in the USA "Freedom of Speech". That, I realize a lot of the world doesn't have and maybe we shouldn't have it here sometimes, from some of the comments coming from the respondents. This is an open forum and all are certainly welcome to participate, or not, which would be a better choice for some, without the mention of name, country of origin, race or political affiliation.
But then again, this is just two cents worth of MHHO.
Mike
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re: sniping query
I don't see culture as an issue here at all. My motivation for bidding on an item has nothing to do with getting something over on the dealer and other bidders. I bid to purchase something at a proper value, determined by me, based on published literature. I have limited funds so this method is important to me.
No one on the anti-snipe side has answered my question, which I will repeat. If I will only make a single bid on an auction (at the max price at which I value the item), how close to the end of the auction am I allowed to make that bid for it to remain a fair practice? Is 30 seconds okay, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 1 day or must I disclose my bid 6 days in advance so others can bid after me?
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re: sniping query
Madness! What is it with you guys?
"I feel your pain and disdain for America and everything about America."
What on earth are you talking about, vinman! Here's a thread all about internet auction tactics and you turn it into an attack on your country? The mere mention of the Art of the Deal is some sort of conspiracy?
My point is that, fascinating to a non-American though sniper-talk is, it's in the wrong place on the DB, as it has only tangentially to do with philately. Did I not make that clear? What that has to do with "Freedom of Speech" heaven only knows.
I do wish there was more discussion, opinion and information about stamps, though.
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re: sniping query
Guthrum,
This is what you posted.
" the American thrill to the Art of the Deal, the attempt to extract something (stamp, model car) at the lowest possible price, thereby demonstrating superiority over (a) others in the same game, and (b) the Dealer. Incidentally, the attempts at finessing the ethics of the Snipe (where some practices are OK, some not, or maybe all OK, or maybe not) reveal much about character, though whether personal or national I cannot decide."
Did you or did you not write this? Americans demonstrating superiority over others. If I snipe it revels much about my character, personal or national. Since you single out Americans and nationality in the next sentence I can only come to the conclusion that it is Americans you have a problem with sniping.
Let's be honest here. This is not your first post about your feelings about America. I'm just calling you on your anti-American sentiment.
This thread was started about auction sniping not military sniping.
Vince
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re: sniping query
Not to venture into a dog fight, which I have done before and got bit. But this may have escalated beyond what it should have.
Eric
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re: sniping query
"In all seriousness:- Auctions should be FUN."
For me eBay auctions are a game. I set my sights on acquiring a specific piece, whether it be a stamp, model car or other collectible, and then I play the game of bidding on them and seeing how I do.
For instance I started looking for mint condition late 19th century / early 20th century commemoratives. I decided I wanted to pay no more than $6.66 for any one. So that's what I started to bid. 90% of the time I get outbid, and sometimes by a great margin. That's okay. Every so often I score! It's a fun game.
A few years ago I wanted to get a 1950 Ford panel van diecast. I'd see them at shows for $50 or more and didn't want to pay that much. I started bidding on them on eBay, with a maximum bid of $25. I'd bid on auctions with less than 24 hrs to go, I find it a waste of time to bid on those with a week left to go... of course through my sniping service not to show my hand.
I'd bid one auction at a time and see the results. One went for $60, one for $45 another for $40. I got impatient and saw three auctions all on the same day. So I bid my $25 on all three reasoning I'd never win one anyway. Well this is what happened... ya never know!
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re: sniping query
BenFranklin1902,
It seems you may have found the secret to winning auctions. Go beyond your senses and/or budget and win all the prizes. I did the same recently, knowing I couldn't possibly win both, but did, to my pleasant surprise. A Finland 6a with small tear, with a couple of perf issues and GB #2, with the sides cut very close, but too nice to pass up.
Mike
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re: sniping query
Earlier today was Victorious on some used (very used) King Edward VII definitives for $7.81. Despite the heavy cancellations I think I did good. Several will be fillers, but even so!
My technique is always the same, which is I never bid a sum which will make me cringe if I happen to win. I was willing to go up to 10 bucks on this collection.
Just got back into the game, so I may not be as smart as I think I am.
Cheers,
Eric
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11:26:34pm
re: sniping query
Guthrum said:
" ...the attempts at finessing the ethics of the Snipe... reveal much about character"
So the use of a snipe tool is a character issue??
He goes on to say:
"It has nothing, of course, to do with stamps! You play a financial internet game - the stamps are entirely incidental"
It has EVERYTHING to do with stamps! People want to acquire the stamps at the lowest possible price!
Methinks me British mate is pissed on a little too much Beefeater...
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
08 May 2016
01:36:30am
re: sniping query
As long as stamps are offered in open auctions,
how one bids, what method of bidding is being used
and the possible motivation of the bidders
is germane to stamping, just as any other issue is
from kinds of collecting, Mint vs used, etc.,
to topics or countries selected are.
Making a point with courtesy and avoiding over reaction are not optional.
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re: sniping query
I agree, Charlie! There's no reason to criticize someone for holding a sincere opinion about sniping.
I understand how some may consider sniping to somehow be undignified and others (like me) consider it an important tool in acquiring stamps at the best price on eBay.
For me, the epiphany came when I realized that eBay is not an online auction. It's an online sealed bid process. Placing your best and final bid before the final few seconds puts you at a distinct disadvantage. If eBay changed the rules to extend the auction every time a new higher bid came along, I would bid differently.
I just play by the rules established by the game, and try to maximize the number of stamps I can acquire within my budget. Simple as that.
Lars
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 May 2016
02:40:42pm
re: sniping query
I always found it exciting, especially when three or four lots closed at about 3pm, all within seconds of one another.
I'd have three or four screens open plus another with the clock and second hand ticking away. A wordpad scree also open with notes about my plans and the amount I was willing to offer.
To me it was a game with winners and losers, the thrill of the hunt and often the exultation of the kill.
I do miss it here, but this is a club and mostly among friends.
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re: sniping query
I was a victim of fellow snipers on an auction that just finished up. I immediately thought of this thread, so here it is...
This auction ended at 9:43:56. Note all the bids that came in the last few seconds of the auction. I was actually sitting here and manually did the snipe. When I hit "Send" with 6 seconds to go my $11 bid seemed like a sure thing since the $8 bid was showing. The final winning bid came in with a single second to go. No doubt that bidder would have paid more, but that's the amount it took to win, one increment over the highest bidder.
And this is bidding on a friggin low value stamp! Am I upset I lost? No, that's what I wanted to pay and if others wanted it more, so be it. There will be another auction for the same stamp and I'll continue to bid my amount until I win one. And it will happen eventually. All part of the game. I'd rather play this game of chance than go to Atlantic City!
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