Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I have all my lots listed by country and category and they all end on the same date (14 days).
I get an initial flurry of activity then nothing for the last 7-8 days
Where are they viewing the lots from?
Thanks for you help!
Russromei
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Having run auctions (and still running auctions) on various sites, this one has something that no other has - auctions end 10 hours after the last bid. No sniping. This means that there is no reason for a buyer to wait until the last minute to place a bid. In a way this is beneficial to a seller as you don;t have to wait until evenings to post your lots. On other sites I schedule auctions to end at night figuring that there is the potential of last minute bidders, and unless you are paying for sniping service (I do) then you can't place last minute bids from work (usually). That being said, I don;t worry about my auctions ending mid day on a Saturday as a person who wants the stamp will probably have their bid in long before that. There is an excellent tutorial on the auctions here
Greg
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"auctions end 10 hours after the last bid"
That's not quite accurate. The closing time extension only happens when a high bid is bested within 10 hours of a lot's closing.
Example 1:
- A lot has a high bid of $1.95, with a proxie bid of $3.95.
- With 1 hour to go before the lot closes, someone places a bid of $2.25.
- The proxie bid activates and raises the high bid to $2.35 - the original high bidder remains the high bidder.
- No other bid is placed within that hour, and the lot closes with a high bid of $2.35
Example 2:
- A lot has a high bid of $1.95, with a proxie bid of $3.95.
- With 1 hour to go before the lot closes, someone places a bid of $4.50.
- The second bid surpasses the proxie bid, and the second bidder becomes the high bidder with a bid of $4.05, and a proxie bid of $4.50.
- The system extends the closing time for ten hours.
- No other bid is placed within that hour, and the lot closes with a high bid of $4.05.
If another bid had been placed that would have been higher than the proxie bid, the system would extend the bidding for another ten hours. This continues, as long as the previous bid is bested. If the high bid is not bested, then the lot will close after the ten hour extension expires.
Important to note is with example 2 should a last minute third bid be placed of $4.50. Since this ties the proxie bid, the closing time is not extended, and the lot is sold to the bidder who placed the $4.50 bid first. Ties in bidding always go to the earliest bid.
See the Auction Tutorial for more information.
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"I get an initial flurry of activity then nothing for the last 7-8 days"
That happens on all auction sites. Most activity, if there is any, occurs in the last hour or so before a lot closes.
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example two is not quite correct; the extension is for 9 hours, not 10, because the system is designed to have everyone have an opportunity to win it with 10 hours to go. If, in example 2, the second bidder had done it with 3 hours remaining, the auction would have been extended by 7 hours.
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David, yes, you are correct. The extension is 10 hours from the time that the new high bid is placed. That clears up a little bit of confusion that I have had about this.
Case in point is this closing information from a lot that I just became the high bidder on.
Current Time: Fri 8th April 2016 12:33:40
Closing Time:
All times are in USA Eastern Time Fri 8th April 2016 22:33:37
(Extended from Fri 8th April 2016 16:54:06 due to last bid within 10 hours of closing)
The original closing time was today at 16:54:06
My bid, which became the new high bid within ten hours of the lot's closing, was placed at 12:33:40, with the new lot closing time ten hours from the time of the bid 22:33:37.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Does anyone know if a referrer log is available
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I have looked at the auctions a number of times but haven't bought anything. I am a big eBay buyer, and had been a successful seller there for a number of years in other collectibles categories.
First, I don't think we have enough traffic to actually have auctions. The sniping argument is mute because there is no spirited competition. Lots are lucky to get a single bid.
I was looking at the auctions a few evenings ago and made a few notes. First, I like covers so I looked at those first. Then I went to the USA category and realized that the same items were repeated here. So I made a note never to go back to the cover category since everything is double posted, just a lot more for a buyer to sort through.
Next I noticed that one seller represented better than 40% of the items in the USA category. Mostly full sheets at rather optimistic prices considering that most US sheets can be bought at a discount off face for postage. I noticed that these auctions were all ending in the next day or so and out of 369 (out of 960 in the entire category) only 3 had bids. So people are wading through all of this. I know I can eliminate a seller from my view, but it doesn't seem a lot of folks are all that savvy on board functions (look at the thread where nobody saw the "jump" button on auction pages).
So did all these auctions run their course and disappear?? Noooo, they all been relisted, as well as a bunch of other sellers lots I noticed expiring the other evening. It's like watching the luggage carousel at the airport.
Last time I looked this seller had 369 of the 960 auctions that were running at the time. That meant there were only 591 auctions being run by all the other sellers.
Today same seller has 418 of 988 auctions. Although there are more auctions, they are all his, with only 570 being run by all the other sellers.
Suggestions I can make? 1. Limit the number of auctions one person can run at a time to 100 2. Limit lots to one category.
I get that this is supposed to be a collector to collector forum. I get that it's all volunteer labor. Just expressing why I don't bother with the auctions here and win several lots a week on eBay
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"nobody saw the "jump" button on auction pages"
That's actually in the approval books.
"Today same seller has 418 of 988 auctions. Although there are more auctions, they are all his, with only 570 being run by all the other sellers."
That is in the USA category. As of this writing, there are almost 4,000 auction lots listed.
"Limit lots to one category."
That would keep people from being able to use topicals along with a country, for one example.
"Limit the number of auctions one person can run at a time to 100"
I am not in favor that.
Regarding relisting unsold auction lots, a seller can relist an item twice. Using the maximum days allowed for an auction listing (14 days), an unsold auction lot can stick around for up to six weeks.
"Does anyone know if a referrer log is available"
What do you mean by that?
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Hey Michael,
A referrer log is a server log that contains urls that were clicked and where it took them.
Like someone can click a country url and the landing page entry will show what was clicked to get them to the list of items page.
When I started this thread, that is what I was looking for because of how my items were getting bids.
Russ
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Ah, okay, Russ. I don't know about that.
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Not to worry, just a thought
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"I have looked at the auctions a number of times but haven't bought anything. I am a big eBay buyer, and had been a successful seller there for a number of years in other collectibles categories.
First, I don't think we have enough traffic to actually have auctions. The sniping argument is mute because there is no spirited competition. Lots are lucky to get a single bid."
I must say that I too have mixed feelings about Auctions. I listed some time ago, and was not pleased with the results, so I no longer post items on Auctions, except in very special cases. I look for items occasionally, but not regularly.
I think Auctions are a mixed bag of "penny items" that would fare better in Approvals (if one could assemble 100 items to meet the minimum Approval size requirements), and better items, that are not clearly featured to generate the traffic one would hope for. It is a haphazard marketplace that lacks many of the necessary features that would make it more successful, in the context of a CLUB with more limited membership.
Auctions as they stand offer nothing new, compared to other clubs, or to the many large commercial sites. But it is one layer of services member do expect, and thus should remain available...I see no point in eliminating Auctions, because of its small traffic, or limited offerings: It serves a purpose for some sellers and some buyers! But it could and I will say SHOULD be improved, given the reality of Stamporama.
What we could do, just like we did with Approvals, is RETHINK auctions to make it an attractive place to post some of the better material, AND generate enough traffic and activity for the rest of items sold, in a CLUB, to make it a lively competitive and satisfying market place.
So I believe the first step is to get a small group of active Auction sellers and buyers to form a small committee to LOOK at Auctions from scratch and rethink what Stamporama could add that is unique and is badly needed to separate us from the rest of the Auction world.
I have already mentioned before that a Unique platform (not Auctions and not Approvals) for the Better Stamps (say with catalog value over $25, or $50...or whatever level you want to set) is badly needed, and is not available here or elsewhere. This would again elevate Stamporama's unique pioneer role in services offered to its membership.
Similarly we should take another look at plain vanilla Auctions to serve needs not currently served in commercial sites or here. We should be offering a unique approach..not just a "me too" Auction platform. This could be a goal we set ourselves to accomplish, and I think it can be done!
Let us think with originality and outside the box...our "New Auctions" could then attract more interesting material, more sellers and more buyers alike. It could even draw more members worldwide. First step required: to agree that we need to do it! That willingness is not clearly visible to me.
rrr...
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"Similarly we should take another look at plain vanilla Auctions to serve needs not currently served in commercial sites or here. We should be offering a unique approach..not just a "me too" Auction platform. This could be a goal we set ourselves to accomplish, and I think it can be done! "
True! I buy on eBay all the time. Why? Because of the vast volume of material and the big dealers who start no reserve auctions at a penny or a dollar. Go and put any US Scott catalog number into the category. Tens of them are for sale. I am filling in my 19th century / early 20th century commemoratives right now and I bid on auctions that end within 24 hours, and yes I snipe bid.
I find nicely centered neatly hinged or never hinged examples and bid very low... usually 10% of catalog. I lose most of the time, because there are others willing to pay more for that stamp. Oh well, there will be more. And a few times a week I am rewarded with very nice stamps at a bargain price. It's a game in itself.
This is why eBay works for me, maybe not so great for sellers anymore since things go low. I know within a few hours if I've been successful, get invoiced immediately and pay quickly via Paypal. I have the stamps in a few days.
This is why the Stamporama auctions don't work for me. I agree with RRR that there needs to be a unique slant to make this work.
I do think that the Stamporama approval format is brilliant.
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I agree, there are always opportunities to improve any auction site but I disagree that Stamporama's auction experience for sellers is futile. I believe it's how you organize your auctions. Single stamp auctions generally belong in the approval book section with the exception being specialty stamps or higher value stamps. Groups of stamps organized by country, topic or region where the customer is getting many stamps has done really well for me. Lately I tried single stamp auctions but had only limited success. I made a couple of approval books with those same stamps and initially have had good success. The approval books take quite a bit of time to create but offer quick sales and are unique to Stamporama (to my limited knowledge). This is a great cite for both sellers and buyers and information and the moderators do a great job.
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"You cant buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a Volkswagen"
Sure you can, but all you'll get is a junker.
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"Those people currently "complaining" about having to go through so many lots fail to realise that an increase in membership will undoubtably bring an increase in lots!!"
"There will be complaints that this is actually a "store", (heaven forbid!!!!)"
This is a "chicken and egg" conundrum. To get more lots, especially high dollar ones, listed you have to have more sellers. Before you can get the sellers, you have to have ample buyers to entice sellers to come here. Sellers also have to see that buyers are willing to pay a fair price for higher valued items.
To increase the volume of selling, you run into the Stamporama wall where there has historically been no desire to turn Stamporama into a commercial web site. Without a more overt commercial presence, sellers will not come. Without more sellers, more buyers will not come.
Now, if there is a big influx of buyers and sellers into Stamporama, how many will spend 100% of their time in the sales arena, totally ignoring the rest of the site? One can look to the history of StampWants and then BidStart. As the user base increased, that did not translate into a larger utilization of the discussion forum.
If Stamporama were to expand its sales platform, especially if it picked up the sellers fleeing from the collapsing BidStart, Stamporama membership may increase substantially. About the only thing that Stamporama does not offer as relates to a sales platform is stores. What benefit would Stamporama and its existing membership get from such an expansion?
Certainly more members will mean more items to buy. The Discussion Boards probably will see a small increase in activity from a small number of the new members. Stores will cause the demise of the approval books. Stores offer a greater flexibility than that offered by the approval book structure with its inability to individually price items, and the limited shelf life.
The increase of usage in the selling areas may (have to ask our Wizard to confirm) tax the Stamporama operating system and its programming. Would it be right to continue to offer the sales platforms free of charge as the costs to operate Stamporama increase?
Who is going to run this? With a large selling platform, there will be a need to monitor it much more intensely, and provide help desk style assistance. There will be no time to play games with those who do not follow the rules. Someone breaking a rule will be shown the exit door. Few second chances will be given as the volume of work will not permit it. If sellers are charged fees, then a financial component has to be added along with accountants and tax implications.
Some people call for a larger selling platform, but it is not as simple as creating the programming for it and letting everyone "have at it". Operationally, logistically and legally there are many things that have to be taken into consideration, and not all of those factors are easy to decide upon or may even be in the best interest of Stamporama and the Stamporama mission.
This is strictly my opinion, and in no way reflects the opinion of the Management Team.
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Does anyone know how a buyer navigates through the site.
I have all my lots listed by country and category and they all end on the same date (14 days).
I get an initial flurry of activity then nothing for the last 7-8 days
Where are they viewing the lots from?
Thanks for you help!
Russromei
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Site Navigation
Having run auctions (and still running auctions) on various sites, this one has something that no other has - auctions end 10 hours after the last bid. No sniping. This means that there is no reason for a buyer to wait until the last minute to place a bid. In a way this is beneficial to a seller as you don;t have to wait until evenings to post your lots. On other sites I schedule auctions to end at night figuring that there is the potential of last minute bidders, and unless you are paying for sniping service (I do) then you can't place last minute bids from work (usually). That being said, I don;t worry about my auctions ending mid day on a Saturday as a person who wants the stamp will probably have their bid in long before that. There is an excellent tutorial on the auctions here
Greg
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11:40:24am
re: Buyer Site Navigation
"auctions end 10 hours after the last bid"
That's not quite accurate. The closing time extension only happens when a high bid is bested within 10 hours of a lot's closing.
Example 1:
- A lot has a high bid of $1.95, with a proxie bid of $3.95.
- With 1 hour to go before the lot closes, someone places a bid of $2.25.
- The proxie bid activates and raises the high bid to $2.35 - the original high bidder remains the high bidder.
- No other bid is placed within that hour, and the lot closes with a high bid of $2.35
Example 2:
- A lot has a high bid of $1.95, with a proxie bid of $3.95.
- With 1 hour to go before the lot closes, someone places a bid of $4.50.
- The second bid surpasses the proxie bid, and the second bidder becomes the high bidder with a bid of $4.05, and a proxie bid of $4.50.
- The system extends the closing time for ten hours.
- No other bid is placed within that hour, and the lot closes with a high bid of $4.05.
If another bid had been placed that would have been higher than the proxie bid, the system would extend the bidding for another ten hours. This continues, as long as the previous bid is bested. If the high bid is not bested, then the lot will close after the ten hour extension expires.
Important to note is with example 2 should a last minute third bid be placed of $4.50. Since this ties the proxie bid, the closing time is not extended, and the lot is sold to the bidder who placed the $4.50 bid first. Ties in bidding always go to the earliest bid.
See the Auction Tutorial for more information.
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11:43:53am
re: Buyer Site Navigation
"I get an initial flurry of activity then nothing for the last 7-8 days"
That happens on all auction sites. Most activity, if there is any, occurs in the last hour or so before a lot closes.
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
example two is not quite correct; the extension is for 9 hours, not 10, because the system is designed to have everyone have an opportunity to win it with 10 hours to go. If, in example 2, the second bidder had done it with 3 hours remaining, the auction would have been extended by 7 hours.
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12:39:04pm
re: Buyer Site Navigation
David, yes, you are correct. The extension is 10 hours from the time that the new high bid is placed. That clears up a little bit of confusion that I have had about this.
Case in point is this closing information from a lot that I just became the high bidder on.
Current Time: Fri 8th April 2016 12:33:40
Closing Time:
All times are in USA Eastern Time Fri 8th April 2016 22:33:37
(Extended from Fri 8th April 2016 16:54:06 due to last bid within 10 hours of closing)
The original closing time was today at 16:54:06
My bid, which became the new high bid within ten hours of the lot's closing, was placed at 12:33:40, with the new lot closing time ten hours from the time of the bid 22:33:37.
Thanks for the clarification.
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
Does anyone know if a referrer log is available
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
I have looked at the auctions a number of times but haven't bought anything. I am a big eBay buyer, and had been a successful seller there for a number of years in other collectibles categories.
First, I don't think we have enough traffic to actually have auctions. The sniping argument is mute because there is no spirited competition. Lots are lucky to get a single bid.
I was looking at the auctions a few evenings ago and made a few notes. First, I like covers so I looked at those first. Then I went to the USA category and realized that the same items were repeated here. So I made a note never to go back to the cover category since everything is double posted, just a lot more for a buyer to sort through.
Next I noticed that one seller represented better than 40% of the items in the USA category. Mostly full sheets at rather optimistic prices considering that most US sheets can be bought at a discount off face for postage. I noticed that these auctions were all ending in the next day or so and out of 369 (out of 960 in the entire category) only 3 had bids. So people are wading through all of this. I know I can eliminate a seller from my view, but it doesn't seem a lot of folks are all that savvy on board functions (look at the thread where nobody saw the "jump" button on auction pages).
So did all these auctions run their course and disappear?? Noooo, they all been relisted, as well as a bunch of other sellers lots I noticed expiring the other evening. It's like watching the luggage carousel at the airport.
Last time I looked this seller had 369 of the 960 auctions that were running at the time. That meant there were only 591 auctions being run by all the other sellers.
Today same seller has 418 of 988 auctions. Although there are more auctions, they are all his, with only 570 being run by all the other sellers.
Suggestions I can make? 1. Limit the number of auctions one person can run at a time to 100 2. Limit lots to one category.
I get that this is supposed to be a collector to collector forum. I get that it's all volunteer labor. Just expressing why I don't bother with the auctions here and win several lots a week on eBay
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02:33:42pm
re: Buyer Site Navigation
"nobody saw the "jump" button on auction pages"
That's actually in the approval books.
"Today same seller has 418 of 988 auctions. Although there are more auctions, they are all his, with only 570 being run by all the other sellers."
That is in the USA category. As of this writing, there are almost 4,000 auction lots listed.
"Limit lots to one category."
That would keep people from being able to use topicals along with a country, for one example.
"Limit the number of auctions one person can run at a time to 100"
I am not in favor that.
Regarding relisting unsold auction lots, a seller can relist an item twice. Using the maximum days allowed for an auction listing (14 days), an unsold auction lot can stick around for up to six weeks.
"Does anyone know if a referrer log is available"
What do you mean by that?
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
Hey Michael,
A referrer log is a server log that contains urls that were clicked and where it took them.
Like someone can click a country url and the landing page entry will show what was clicked to get them to the list of items page.
When I started this thread, that is what I was looking for because of how my items were getting bids.
Russ
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06:49:06pm
re: Buyer Site Navigation
Ah, okay, Russ. I don't know about that.
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
Not to worry, just a thought
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
"I have looked at the auctions a number of times but haven't bought anything. I am a big eBay buyer, and had been a successful seller there for a number of years in other collectibles categories.
First, I don't think we have enough traffic to actually have auctions. The sniping argument is mute because there is no spirited competition. Lots are lucky to get a single bid."
I must say that I too have mixed feelings about Auctions. I listed some time ago, and was not pleased with the results, so I no longer post items on Auctions, except in very special cases. I look for items occasionally, but not regularly.
I think Auctions are a mixed bag of "penny items" that would fare better in Approvals (if one could assemble 100 items to meet the minimum Approval size requirements), and better items, that are not clearly featured to generate the traffic one would hope for. It is a haphazard marketplace that lacks many of the necessary features that would make it more successful, in the context of a CLUB with more limited membership.
Auctions as they stand offer nothing new, compared to other clubs, or to the many large commercial sites. But it is one layer of services member do expect, and thus should remain available...I see no point in eliminating Auctions, because of its small traffic, or limited offerings: It serves a purpose for some sellers and some buyers! But it could and I will say SHOULD be improved, given the reality of Stamporama.
What we could do, just like we did with Approvals, is RETHINK auctions to make it an attractive place to post some of the better material, AND generate enough traffic and activity for the rest of items sold, in a CLUB, to make it a lively competitive and satisfying market place.
So I believe the first step is to get a small group of active Auction sellers and buyers to form a small committee to LOOK at Auctions from scratch and rethink what Stamporama could add that is unique and is badly needed to separate us from the rest of the Auction world.
I have already mentioned before that a Unique platform (not Auctions and not Approvals) for the Better Stamps (say with catalog value over $25, or $50...or whatever level you want to set) is badly needed, and is not available here or elsewhere. This would again elevate Stamporama's unique pioneer role in services offered to its membership.
Similarly we should take another look at plain vanilla Auctions to serve needs not currently served in commercial sites or here. We should be offering a unique approach..not just a "me too" Auction platform. This could be a goal we set ourselves to accomplish, and I think it can be done!
Let us think with originality and outside the box...our "New Auctions" could then attract more interesting material, more sellers and more buyers alike. It could even draw more members worldwide. First step required: to agree that we need to do it! That willingness is not clearly visible to me.
rrr...
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
"Similarly we should take another look at plain vanilla Auctions to serve needs not currently served in commercial sites or here. We should be offering a unique approach..not just a "me too" Auction platform. This could be a goal we set ourselves to accomplish, and I think it can be done! "
True! I buy on eBay all the time. Why? Because of the vast volume of material and the big dealers who start no reserve auctions at a penny or a dollar. Go and put any US Scott catalog number into the category. Tens of them are for sale. I am filling in my 19th century / early 20th century commemoratives right now and I bid on auctions that end within 24 hours, and yes I snipe bid.
I find nicely centered neatly hinged or never hinged examples and bid very low... usually 10% of catalog. I lose most of the time, because there are others willing to pay more for that stamp. Oh well, there will be more. And a few times a week I am rewarded with very nice stamps at a bargain price. It's a game in itself.
This is why eBay works for me, maybe not so great for sellers anymore since things go low. I know within a few hours if I've been successful, get invoiced immediately and pay quickly via Paypal. I have the stamps in a few days.
This is why the Stamporama auctions don't work for me. I agree with RRR that there needs to be a unique slant to make this work.
I do think that the Stamporama approval format is brilliant.
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re: Buyer Site Navigation
I agree, there are always opportunities to improve any auction site but I disagree that Stamporama's auction experience for sellers is futile. I believe it's how you organize your auctions. Single stamp auctions generally belong in the approval book section with the exception being specialty stamps or higher value stamps. Groups of stamps organized by country, topic or region where the customer is getting many stamps has done really well for me. Lately I tried single stamp auctions but had only limited success. I made a couple of approval books with those same stamps and initially have had good success. The approval books take quite a bit of time to create but offer quick sales and are unique to Stamporama (to my limited knowledge). This is a great cite for both sellers and buyers and information and the moderators do a great job.
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09:13:29pm
re: Buyer Site Navigation
"You cant buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a Volkswagen"
Sure you can, but all you'll get is a junker.
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09:50:54pm
re: Buyer Site Navigation
"Those people currently "complaining" about having to go through so many lots fail to realise that an increase in membership will undoubtably bring an increase in lots!!"
"There will be complaints that this is actually a "store", (heaven forbid!!!!)"
This is a "chicken and egg" conundrum. To get more lots, especially high dollar ones, listed you have to have more sellers. Before you can get the sellers, you have to have ample buyers to entice sellers to come here. Sellers also have to see that buyers are willing to pay a fair price for higher valued items.
To increase the volume of selling, you run into the Stamporama wall where there has historically been no desire to turn Stamporama into a commercial web site. Without a more overt commercial presence, sellers will not come. Without more sellers, more buyers will not come.
Now, if there is a big influx of buyers and sellers into Stamporama, how many will spend 100% of their time in the sales arena, totally ignoring the rest of the site? One can look to the history of StampWants and then BidStart. As the user base increased, that did not translate into a larger utilization of the discussion forum.
If Stamporama were to expand its sales platform, especially if it picked up the sellers fleeing from the collapsing BidStart, Stamporama membership may increase substantially. About the only thing that Stamporama does not offer as relates to a sales platform is stores. What benefit would Stamporama and its existing membership get from such an expansion?
Certainly more members will mean more items to buy. The Discussion Boards probably will see a small increase in activity from a small number of the new members. Stores will cause the demise of the approval books. Stores offer a greater flexibility than that offered by the approval book structure with its inability to individually price items, and the limited shelf life.
The increase of usage in the selling areas may (have to ask our Wizard to confirm) tax the Stamporama operating system and its programming. Would it be right to continue to offer the sales platforms free of charge as the costs to operate Stamporama increase?
Who is going to run this? With a large selling platform, there will be a need to monitor it much more intensely, and provide help desk style assistance. There will be no time to play games with those who do not follow the rules. Someone breaking a rule will be shown the exit door. Few second chances will be given as the volume of work will not permit it. If sellers are charged fees, then a financial component has to be added along with accountants and tax implications.
Some people call for a larger selling platform, but it is not as simple as creating the programming for it and letting everyone "have at it". Operationally, logistically and legally there are many things that have to be taken into consideration, and not all of those factors are easy to decide upon or may even be in the best interest of Stamporama and the Stamporama mission.
This is strictly my opinion, and in no way reflects the opinion of the Management Team.
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