What we collect!

 

Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps



What we collect!
What we collect!


General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Wrong on so many levels

 

Author
Postings
Stampme

26 Mar 2016
06:10:57pm
I suppose in the grand scheme of things, nothing really matters but every time I see this modern add on stuff, I get steamed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-1917-Envelope-with-Savage-Rifles-Modern-Add-on-Cachet-A27-/291720235756?hash=item43ebe18aec:g:stsAAOSwQjNW9pzY

Not only are older covers being ruined for philatelists but without an indelible marking identifying this cover as having modern reproduction add on, the door remains open for unscrupulous sellers to offer this junk (okay--my opinion) as something it is not on another occasion.

Bruce


Like
Login to Like
this post
damichab
Members Picture


26 Mar 2016
06:45:45pm
re: Wrong on so many levels

I looks like a quick way to value-add to an otherwise low value envelope.

If it was real, however, you would think that the address would not have been written over the picture. This might be a way to identify the fakes.

Not sure why anyone would want to buy something that is not real.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

26 Mar 2016
07:39:18pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Wrong on so many levels

The picture will be over the writing, much as a forged overprint on a used stamp is over the cancel (very easy to see on a scanned jpeg if you play around with contrast and color filters).

This is not a new thing, below is a 1891 cover with what appears to be a fairly contemporary painting (the lower part is oil paint, multi layered with the edge of a small palette knife). That's the opinion of a friend who expertise's art for some of the larger auction houses.

So it would appear that they were doing this well over a century ago. The painting obliterated the address (backstamped Buffalo, NY). Obviously it was just meant as an art form and was not meant to deceive.

Image Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/store/webpaper
ikeyPikey
Members Picture


26 Mar 2016
10:28:44pm
re: Wrong on so many levels

I don't see a Big Problem here.

No one is going to do this to a cover that is selling for real money, and price theory tells us that greatly diminishes the what if they destroy something really important issue.

If there is one thing that fleaBay has taught us, it is that there is an ocean of stuff out there, much of which will never be missed.

On the positive side, if decorating old covers ever does become a Big Thing, it will bring in fresh blood, broaden the hobby, and do nothing to detract from the pursuit of original gum.

Surely, every one of us can name things that have already done more damage to the hobby than re-purposing old covers into new Faux Retro Art ever will.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Stampme

27 Mar 2016
10:24:41am
re: Wrong on so many levels

I suppose the point of my posting is that most such FAKED covers often do not have reproduction or modern add on imprinted upon them which would be the hallmark of an honest transaction, today. The dealer in question has not answered an earlier question to provide either an image or a description of the back of the faked cover offered.

Without that honest declaration, these covers could be pushed as their original valuable counterparts to novice collectors or even someone who might know better--the add-on does not apparently always appear as over the writing either which is problematical.

I do not subscribe to the notion that novice collectors learn not to be bilked by getting ripped off either although such transactions might be painfully instructive; they could also be an incredible early turn off to the hobby.

Bruce

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
BenFranklin1902
Members Picture


Tom in Exton, PA

27 Mar 2016
03:01:41pm
re: Wrong on so many levels

I agree with Bruce. This guy is basically just running dollar covers through his printer and selling them for $25 implying that there is value there. And I agree that these will be mistaken for real in future transactions. They do need to be permanently marked.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
Snick1946
Members Picture


APS Life Member

27 Mar 2016
06:47:20pm
re: Wrong on so many levels

This guy also sells 'reproductions' of valuable US stamps- some of the worst on Ebay IMO.

Despite what he says he does NOT mark them as copies, not that they'd fool anyone. Some are not even the right size.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Bobstamp
Members Picture


27 Mar 2016
11:37:46pm
re: Wrong on so many levels

Covers like these are way too common, and sometimes require a fair amount of knowledge to identify. Here's an example, a bogus cachet on a legitimate Channel Islands occupation FDC currently being offered on eBay:

Image Not Found

The German Occupation of the Channel Islands was a bitter pill for islanders. There were collaborators, but it's hard to imagine one of them posting this cover. Except for letters posted from the Channel Islands to internment camps in Europe, the only mail that islanders could post was local or inter-island mail to each other. The Channel Islands Specialists' Society pictures a similar cover on a web page about bogus Channel Islands occupation covers. The one shown above is yours for only U.S. $49.00

This is another bogus Channel Islands cover being offered by the same eBay seller:

Image Not Found

As I mentioned above, no civil mail left the Channel Islands during the war, nor so far as I have been able to learn were German stamps used by islanders. The occupation force used the military feldpost system, without stamps. The addressee, Karl Hennig, was a notorious philatelic faker. I understand that his son has apparently carried on the family business.

The really unfortunate thing is that many interesting and legitimate Channel Island occupation covers can be purchased for reasonable amounts.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.ephemeraltreasures.net
malcolm197

28 Mar 2016
05:32:10pm
re: Wrong on so many levels

Bob

It has to be said that the vast majority of genuine Channel Island covers are philatelically inspired. Bear in mind that normal life, (as we know it Jim {copywrite Startrek}) and trade was almost non-existent - nothing to buy, nothing to sell, nothing to eat ( well not quite but you get my meaning ), no social life , no transport etc.

All this being so there was little need to communicate outside one's local community - therefore no need for much mail. While there is no doubt that the mail you describe is strictly speaking genuinely commercially used and not philatelic, the number of surviving postal history items is many times more than genuine postal NEED - and that does not account for the number destroyed. I think there was a bit of a cottage industry sending mail around the island and then putting it away against the time when philatelic business could recommence. That is why such material is relatively common and reasonably cheap.

However having said that mail to and from deportees and prisoners of war via the Red Cross is in the most part genuine and not philatelic.

Malcolm

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

 

Author/Postings
Stampme

26 Mar 2016
06:10:57pm

I suppose in the grand scheme of things, nothing really matters but every time I see this modern add on stuff, I get steamed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-1917-Envelope-with-Savage-Rifles-Modern-Add-on-Cachet-A27-/291720235756?hash=item43ebe18aec:g:stsAAOSwQjNW9pzY

Not only are older covers being ruined for philatelists but without an indelible marking identifying this cover as having modern reproduction add on, the door remains open for unscrupulous sellers to offer this junk (okay--my opinion) as something it is not on another occasion.

Bruce


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
damichab

26 Mar 2016
06:45:45pm

re: Wrong on so many levels

I looks like a quick way to value-add to an otherwise low value envelope.

If it was real, however, you would think that the address would not have been written over the picture. This might be a way to identify the fakes.

Not sure why anyone would want to buy something that is not real.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

26 Mar 2016
07:39:18pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Wrong on so many levels

The picture will be over the writing, much as a forged overprint on a used stamp is over the cancel (very easy to see on a scanned jpeg if you play around with contrast and color filters).

This is not a new thing, below is a 1891 cover with what appears to be a fairly contemporary painting (the lower part is oil paint, multi layered with the edge of a small palette knife). That's the opinion of a friend who expertise's art for some of the larger auction houses.

So it would appear that they were doing this well over a century ago. The painting obliterated the address (backstamped Buffalo, NY). Obviously it was just meant as an art form and was not meant to deceive.

Image Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

26 Mar 2016
10:28:44pm

re: Wrong on so many levels

I don't see a Big Problem here.

No one is going to do this to a cover that is selling for real money, and price theory tells us that greatly diminishes the what if they destroy something really important issue.

If there is one thing that fleaBay has taught us, it is that there is an ocean of stuff out there, much of which will never be missed.

On the positive side, if decorating old covers ever does become a Big Thing, it will bring in fresh blood, broaden the hobby, and do nothing to detract from the pursuit of original gum.

Surely, every one of us can name things that have already done more damage to the hobby than re-purposing old covers into new Faux Retro Art ever will.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Stampme

27 Mar 2016
10:24:41am

re: Wrong on so many levels

I suppose the point of my posting is that most such FAKED covers often do not have reproduction or modern add on imprinted upon them which would be the hallmark of an honest transaction, today. The dealer in question has not answered an earlier question to provide either an image or a description of the back of the faked cover offered.

Without that honest declaration, these covers could be pushed as their original valuable counterparts to novice collectors or even someone who might know better--the add-on does not apparently always appear as over the writing either which is problematical.

I do not subscribe to the notion that novice collectors learn not to be bilked by getting ripped off either although such transactions might be painfully instructive; they could also be an incredible early turn off to the hobby.

Bruce

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
27 Mar 2016
03:01:41pm

re: Wrong on so many levels

I agree with Bruce. This guy is basically just running dollar covers through his printer and selling them for $25 implying that there is value there. And I agree that these will be mistaken for real in future transactions. They do need to be permanently marked.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
Members Picture
Snick1946

APS Life Member
27 Mar 2016
06:47:20pm

re: Wrong on so many levels

This guy also sells 'reproductions' of valuable US stamps- some of the worst on Ebay IMO.

Despite what he says he does NOT mark them as copies, not that they'd fool anyone. Some are not even the right size.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Bobstamp

27 Mar 2016
11:37:46pm

re: Wrong on so many levels

Covers like these are way too common, and sometimes require a fair amount of knowledge to identify. Here's an example, a bogus cachet on a legitimate Channel Islands occupation FDC currently being offered on eBay:

Image Not Found

The German Occupation of the Channel Islands was a bitter pill for islanders. There were collaborators, but it's hard to imagine one of them posting this cover. Except for letters posted from the Channel Islands to internment camps in Europe, the only mail that islanders could post was local or inter-island mail to each other. The Channel Islands Specialists' Society pictures a similar cover on a web page about bogus Channel Islands occupation covers. The one shown above is yours for only U.S. $49.00

This is another bogus Channel Islands cover being offered by the same eBay seller:

Image Not Found

As I mentioned above, no civil mail left the Channel Islands during the war, nor so far as I have been able to learn were German stamps used by islanders. The occupation force used the military feldpost system, without stamps. The addressee, Karl Hennig, was a notorious philatelic faker. I understand that his son has apparently carried on the family business.

The really unfortunate thing is that many interesting and legitimate Channel Island occupation covers can be purchased for reasonable amounts.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.ephemeraltreasur ...
malcolm197

28 Mar 2016
05:32:10pm

re: Wrong on so many levels

Bob

It has to be said that the vast majority of genuine Channel Island covers are philatelically inspired. Bear in mind that normal life, (as we know it Jim {copywrite Startrek}) and trade was almost non-existent - nothing to buy, nothing to sell, nothing to eat ( well not quite but you get my meaning ), no social life , no transport etc.

All this being so there was little need to communicate outside one's local community - therefore no need for much mail. While there is no doubt that the mail you describe is strictly speaking genuinely commercially used and not philatelic, the number of surviving postal history items is many times more than genuine postal NEED - and that does not account for the number destroyed. I think there was a bit of a cottage industry sending mail around the island and then putting it away against the time when philatelic business could recommence. That is why such material is relatively common and reasonably cheap.

However having said that mail to and from deportees and prisoners of war via the Red Cross is in the most part genuine and not philatelic.

Malcolm

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

Contact Webmaster | Visitors Online | Unsubscribe Emails | Facebook


User Agreement

Copyright © 2024 Stamporama.com