I looks like a quick way to value-add to an otherwise low value envelope.
If it was real, however, you would think that the address would not have been written over the picture. This might be a way to identify the fakes.
Not sure why anyone would want to buy something that is not real.
The picture will be over the writing, much as a forged overprint on a used stamp is over the cancel (very easy to see on a scanned jpeg if you play around with contrast and color filters).
This is not a new thing, below is a 1891 cover with what appears to be a fairly contemporary painting (the lower part is oil paint, multi layered with the edge of a small palette knife). That's the opinion of a friend who expertise's art for some of the larger auction houses.
So it would appear that they were doing this well over a century ago. The painting obliterated the address (backstamped Buffalo, NY). Obviously it was just meant as an art form and was not meant to deceive.
I don't see a Big Problem here.
No one is going to do this to a cover that is selling for real money, and price theory tells us that greatly diminishes the what if they destroy something really important issue.
If there is one thing that fleaBay has taught us, it is that there is an ocean of stuff out there, much of which will never be missed.
On the positive side, if decorating old covers ever does become a Big Thing, it will bring in fresh blood, broaden the hobby, and do nothing to detract from the pursuit of original gum.
Surely, every one of us can name things that have already done more damage to the hobby than re-purposing old covers into new Faux Retro Art ever will.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
I suppose the point of my posting is that most such FAKED covers often do not have reproduction or modern add on imprinted upon them which would be the hallmark of an honest transaction, today. The dealer in question has not answered an earlier question to provide either an image or a description of the back of the faked cover offered.
Without that honest declaration, these covers could be pushed as their original valuable counterparts to novice collectors or even someone who might know better--the add-on does not apparently always appear as over the writing either which is problematical.
I do not subscribe to the notion that novice collectors learn not to be bilked by getting ripped off either although such transactions might be painfully instructive; they could also be an incredible early turn off to the hobby.
Bruce
I agree with Bruce. This guy is basically just running dollar covers through his printer and selling them for $25 implying that there is value there. And I agree that these will be mistaken for real in future transactions. They do need to be permanently marked.
This guy also sells 'reproductions' of valuable US stamps- some of the worst on Ebay IMO.
Despite what he says he does NOT mark them as copies, not that they'd fool anyone. Some are not even the right size.
Covers like these are way too common, and sometimes require a fair amount of knowledge to identify. Here's an example, a bogus cachet on a legitimate Channel Islands occupation FDC currently being offered on eBay:
The German Occupation of the Channel Islands was a bitter pill for islanders. There were collaborators, but it's hard to imagine one of them posting this cover. Except for letters posted from the Channel Islands to internment camps in Europe, the only mail that islanders could post was local or inter-island mail to each other. The Channel Islands Specialists' Society pictures a similar cover on a web page about bogus Channel Islands occupation covers. The one shown above is yours for only U.S. $49.00
This is another bogus Channel Islands cover being offered by the same eBay seller:
As I mentioned above, no civil mail left the Channel Islands during the war, nor so far as I have been able to learn were German stamps used by islanders. The occupation force used the military feldpost system, without stamps. The addressee, Karl Hennig, was a notorious philatelic faker. I understand that his son has apparently carried on the family business.
The really unfortunate thing is that many interesting and legitimate Channel Island occupation covers can be purchased for reasonable amounts.
Bob
It has to be said that the vast majority of genuine Channel Island covers are philatelically inspired. Bear in mind that normal life, (as we know it Jim {copywrite Startrek}) and trade was almost non-existent - nothing to buy, nothing to sell, nothing to eat ( well not quite but you get my meaning ), no social life , no transport etc.
All this being so there was little need to communicate outside one's local community - therefore no need for much mail. While there is no doubt that the mail you describe is strictly speaking genuinely commercially used and not philatelic, the number of surviving postal history items is many times more than genuine postal NEED - and that does not account for the number destroyed. I think there was a bit of a cottage industry sending mail around the island and then putting it away against the time when philatelic business could recommence. That is why such material is relatively common and reasonably cheap.
However having said that mail to and from deportees and prisoners of war via the Red Cross is in the most part genuine and not philatelic.
Malcolm
I suppose in the grand scheme of things, nothing really matters but every time I see this modern add on stuff, I get steamed.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-1917-Envelope-with-Savage-Rifles-Modern-Add-on-Cachet-A27-/291720235756?hash=item43ebe18aec:g:stsAAOSwQjNW9pzY
Not only are older covers being ruined for philatelists but without an indelible marking identifying this cover as having modern reproduction add on, the door remains open for unscrupulous sellers to offer this junk (okay--my opinion) as something it is not on another occasion.
Bruce
re: Wrong on so many levels
I looks like a quick way to value-add to an otherwise low value envelope.
If it was real, however, you would think that the address would not have been written over the picture. This might be a way to identify the fakes.
Not sure why anyone would want to buy something that is not real.
re: Wrong on so many levels
The picture will be over the writing, much as a forged overprint on a used stamp is over the cancel (very easy to see on a scanned jpeg if you play around with contrast and color filters).
This is not a new thing, below is a 1891 cover with what appears to be a fairly contemporary painting (the lower part is oil paint, multi layered with the edge of a small palette knife). That's the opinion of a friend who expertise's art for some of the larger auction houses.
So it would appear that they were doing this well over a century ago. The painting obliterated the address (backstamped Buffalo, NY). Obviously it was just meant as an art form and was not meant to deceive.
re: Wrong on so many levels
I don't see a Big Problem here.
No one is going to do this to a cover that is selling for real money, and price theory tells us that greatly diminishes the what if they destroy something really important issue.
If there is one thing that fleaBay has taught us, it is that there is an ocean of stuff out there, much of which will never be missed.
On the positive side, if decorating old covers ever does become a Big Thing, it will bring in fresh blood, broaden the hobby, and do nothing to detract from the pursuit of original gum.
Surely, every one of us can name things that have already done more damage to the hobby than re-purposing old covers into new Faux Retro Art ever will.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
re: Wrong on so many levels
I suppose the point of my posting is that most such FAKED covers often do not have reproduction or modern add on imprinted upon them which would be the hallmark of an honest transaction, today. The dealer in question has not answered an earlier question to provide either an image or a description of the back of the faked cover offered.
Without that honest declaration, these covers could be pushed as their original valuable counterparts to novice collectors or even someone who might know better--the add-on does not apparently always appear as over the writing either which is problematical.
I do not subscribe to the notion that novice collectors learn not to be bilked by getting ripped off either although such transactions might be painfully instructive; they could also be an incredible early turn off to the hobby.
Bruce
re: Wrong on so many levels
I agree with Bruce. This guy is basically just running dollar covers through his printer and selling them for $25 implying that there is value there. And I agree that these will be mistaken for real in future transactions. They do need to be permanently marked.
re: Wrong on so many levels
This guy also sells 'reproductions' of valuable US stamps- some of the worst on Ebay IMO.
Despite what he says he does NOT mark them as copies, not that they'd fool anyone. Some are not even the right size.
re: Wrong on so many levels
Covers like these are way too common, and sometimes require a fair amount of knowledge to identify. Here's an example, a bogus cachet on a legitimate Channel Islands occupation FDC currently being offered on eBay:
The German Occupation of the Channel Islands was a bitter pill for islanders. There were collaborators, but it's hard to imagine one of them posting this cover. Except for letters posted from the Channel Islands to internment camps in Europe, the only mail that islanders could post was local or inter-island mail to each other. The Channel Islands Specialists' Society pictures a similar cover on a web page about bogus Channel Islands occupation covers. The one shown above is yours for only U.S. $49.00
This is another bogus Channel Islands cover being offered by the same eBay seller:
As I mentioned above, no civil mail left the Channel Islands during the war, nor so far as I have been able to learn were German stamps used by islanders. The occupation force used the military feldpost system, without stamps. The addressee, Karl Hennig, was a notorious philatelic faker. I understand that his son has apparently carried on the family business.
The really unfortunate thing is that many interesting and legitimate Channel Island occupation covers can be purchased for reasonable amounts.
re: Wrong on so many levels
Bob
It has to be said that the vast majority of genuine Channel Island covers are philatelically inspired. Bear in mind that normal life, (as we know it Jim {copywrite Startrek}) and trade was almost non-existent - nothing to buy, nothing to sell, nothing to eat ( well not quite but you get my meaning ), no social life , no transport etc.
All this being so there was little need to communicate outside one's local community - therefore no need for much mail. While there is no doubt that the mail you describe is strictly speaking genuinely commercially used and not philatelic, the number of surviving postal history items is many times more than genuine postal NEED - and that does not account for the number destroyed. I think there was a bit of a cottage industry sending mail around the island and then putting it away against the time when philatelic business could recommence. That is why such material is relatively common and reasonably cheap.
However having said that mail to and from deportees and prisoners of war via the Red Cross is in the most part genuine and not philatelic.
Malcolm