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Europe/Other : France: precancels

 

Author
Postings
Dean Waler

09 Jan 2005
04:37:56pm
Hello my name is Dean I live in Texas in a town called Coupland and I am 16 years old. 2 years ago my uncle got very sick and gave me his stamp collection. I think I am the only stamp collector in Texas. There are a lotof stamps and I have been doing France and Portugal. I have a question about the French stamps. There are a lot of them that look like they have already had a postmark put on them. The postmark is a kind of half circle that says AFFRANCHts and then below that in a straight line is the word POSTES. Can anyone tell me what that means and where in the albums they are supposed to go to?

Thank you, Dean
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re: France: precancels

Welcome to the Stamporama Discussion board, Dean.

These stamps are known as "precancels". The "cancellation" is actually printed on them. They are for use by large volume bulk mailers (like junk mail) and are precancelled so that they do not have to go through the cancelling machines. Normally, the mail is also pre-sorted by the sender into delivery territories to save the post office work. This allows the volume mailer discounts on the postage rate they pay.

Maybe you have some US precancels in your US album. In the US, the same thing normally has a couple of lines with a town and state name. In Canada, they come with both town names and numbers between lines. Some collectors make a specialized study of these. There have been many discussions of US precancels on this dscussion board. Use the links at left and do a "Keyword Search" for "precancel" if you are interested in finding those earlier messages.

As far as placement in your album is concerned, no commercial worldwide album is going to have specific spaces for these. If these interest you, now is the time to start using blank pages in your album to mount these "extra" things. Many collectors get more fun from these sorts of things than they do from "filling spaces".

Don't be shy about asking more questions. Some of the old codgers around here like nothing better than passing on what they have learned to an interested youngster.



Roy

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Jan-Simon

10 Jan 2005
05:09:21am
re: France: precancels

Roy,
I could be wrong, but I thought that the Michel catalogue lists French precancels as normal stamps in the main listing. That makes me think that major albums like Lindner, Leuchtturm and the likes will very likely have a place for those stamps. American albums, based on Scott.... I suppose not.

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Dean Waler

10 Jan 2005
08:53:33pm
re: France: precancels

Hello Roy and Jan-Simon. Thanks for the information about the cancles but some of the stamps I have are the Merson issues the Liberty Equality Fraternitie printed from 1900 to 1929. I dont think that there was any junk mail that early and I'm also pretty sure that there were not any canceling machines that early either. I know about the precancels from the u.s. My uncle gave me his collection and he has an album full of nothing but those. He has pages arranged according to the alphabet from each state and most of the pages are full. do you think that Jan-Simon could tell me where to find an album for those French precancels?

Thank you, Dean Waler

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lerivage

29 Nov 2014
07:59:50am
re: France: precancels

Almost ten years later. Everyone is getting older.

French pre-cancels are quite common for French collectors. The French catalog Yvert-et-Tellier mentions them in a special section, after airmail, and others.
In albums there are pages with a place for each of them.

Regarding junk mail in the early 20th century, yes there was already some, and for cancelling machines, they had a special name at that time: clerk

Michel

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

29 Nov 2014
11:22:20am
re: France: precancels

That's too funny, there is no Dean Waler in the data base anymore. Maybe he got tired of waiting for more answers to his question, but I'm sure there are a lot of active members appreciate the input of information anyway.
Mike

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"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

29 Nov 2014
12:02:31pm
re: France: precancels

If you want me to mail you a copy of pages from the Y&T precancelled France catalog as a reference (I have the 2007), drop me a private message with your postal address. If you search on keyword "precancelled" on the Discussion Board (see the SEARCH icon above...make sure you put KEYWORD in your selection), you will find several prior discussions on the topic that will complete (or start) your education on the subjects. Beware of counterfeits.
I have an almost complete collection..(well it is not complete yet, because I am lacking several early higher valued stamps) if you want to compare notes. There is a site that offers for free, very nicely laid out album pages to print for France precancelled...I will try to find a link and post here later. rrr..

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

29 Nov 2014
12:11:00pm
re: France: precancels

http://www.album.france-timbres.net/index.php

In the third paragraph: Preobliteres. Click and print all the pages for france pre-cancelled stamps. Nice layout!

Also, be aware, as per Y&T, that there are some variations which means additional stamps not slotted on the pages, and they may be worth more (or less) depending on which one it is. Check the Y&T catalog.


rrr..


(Modified by Moderator on 2014-11-29 12:15:10)

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

29 Nov 2014
12:20:01pm
re: France: precancels

Folk

As Mike alluded, the original post was from 2005 and Dean Waler is 9 years older, probably doing what we all did at 25 (hanging up our collection for other pursuits) and is no longer even in our data base. The information you have provided is good, but do not expect a reply from Mr. Waler.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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Author/Postings
Dean Waler

09 Jan 2005
04:37:56pm

Hello my name is Dean I live in Texas in a town called Coupland and I am 16 years old. 2 years ago my uncle got very sick and gave me his stamp collection. I think I am the only stamp collector in Texas. There are a lotof stamps and I have been doing France and Portugal. I have a question about the French stamps. There are a lot of them that look like they have already had a postmark put on them. The postmark is a kind of half circle that says AFFRANCHts and then below that in a straight line is the word POSTES. Can anyone tell me what that means and where in the albums they are supposed to go to?

Thank you, Dean

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Roy Lingen [Stamporama Webmaster] (Roy)

09 Jan 2005
05:56:23pm

re: France: precancels

Welcome to the Stamporama Discussion board, Dean.

These stamps are known as "precancels". The "cancellation" is actually printed on them. They are for use by large volume bulk mailers (like junk mail) and are precancelled so that they do not have to go through the cancelling machines. Normally, the mail is also pre-sorted by the sender into delivery territories to save the post office work. This allows the volume mailer discounts on the postage rate they pay.

Maybe you have some US precancels in your US album. In the US, the same thing normally has a couple of lines with a town and state name. In Canada, they come with both town names and numbers between lines. Some collectors make a specialized study of these. There have been many discussions of US precancels on this dscussion board. Use the links at left and do a "Keyword Search" for "precancel" if you are interested in finding those earlier messages.

As far as placement in your album is concerned, no commercial worldwide album is going to have specific spaces for these. If these interest you, now is the time to start using blank pages in your album to mount these "extra" things. Many collectors get more fun from these sorts of things than they do from "filling spaces".

Don't be shy about asking more questions. Some of the old codgers around here like nothing better than passing on what they have learned to an interested youngster.



Roy

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this post
Jan-Simon

10 Jan 2005
05:09:21am

re: France: precancels

Roy,
I could be wrong, but I thought that the Michel catalogue lists French precancels as normal stamps in the main listing. That makes me think that major albums like Lindner, Leuchtturm and the likes will very likely have a place for those stamps. American albums, based on Scott.... I suppose not.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Dean Waler

10 Jan 2005
08:53:33pm

re: France: precancels

Hello Roy and Jan-Simon. Thanks for the information about the cancles but some of the stamps I have are the Merson issues the Liberty Equality Fraternitie printed from 1900 to 1929. I dont think that there was any junk mail that early and I'm also pretty sure that there were not any canceling machines that early either. I know about the precancels from the u.s. My uncle gave me his collection and he has an album full of nothing but those. He has pages arranged according to the alphabet from each state and most of the pages are full. do you think that Jan-Simon could tell me where to find an album for those French precancels?

Thank you, Dean Waler

Like
Login to Like
this post
lerivage

29 Nov 2014
07:59:50am

re: France: precancels

Almost ten years later. Everyone is getting older.

French pre-cancels are quite common for French collectors. The French catalog Yvert-et-Tellier mentions them in a special section, after airmail, and others.
In albums there are pages with a place for each of them.

Regarding junk mail in the early 20th century, yes there was already some, and for cancelling machines, they had a special name at that time: clerk

Michel

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
CapeStampMan

Mike
29 Nov 2014
11:22:20am

re: France: precancels

That's too funny, there is no Dean Waler in the data base anymore. Maybe he got tired of waiting for more answers to his question, but I'm sure there are a lot of active members appreciate the input of information anyway.
Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
29 Nov 2014
12:02:31pm

re: France: precancels

If you want me to mail you a copy of pages from the Y&T precancelled France catalog as a reference (I have the 2007), drop me a private message with your postal address. If you search on keyword "precancelled" on the Discussion Board (see the SEARCH icon above...make sure you put KEYWORD in your selection), you will find several prior discussions on the topic that will complete (or start) your education on the subjects. Beware of counterfeits.
I have an almost complete collection..(well it is not complete yet, because I am lacking several early higher valued stamps) if you want to compare notes. There is a site that offers for free, very nicely laid out album pages to print for France precancelled...I will try to find a link and post here later. rrr..

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
29 Nov 2014
12:11:00pm

re: France: precancels

http://www.album.france-timbres.net/index.php

In the third paragraph: Preobliteres. Click and print all the pages for france pre-cancelled stamps. Nice layout!

Also, be aware, as per Y&T, that there are some variations which means additional stamps not slotted on the pages, and they may be worth more (or less) depending on which one it is. Check the Y&T catalog.


rrr..


(Modified by Moderator on 2014-11-29 12:15:10)

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
29 Nov 2014
12:20:01pm

re: France: precancels

Folk

As Mike alluded, the original post was from 2005 and Dean Waler is 9 years older, probably doing what we all did at 25 (hanging up our collection for other pursuits) and is no longer even in our data base. The information you have provided is good, but do not expect a reply from Mr. Waler.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
        

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