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Europe/Other : Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

 

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canadastan2015

28 Feb 2016
08:02:35am
How can one tell the difference between the postage dues of the Netherlands or the Netherland Indies especially ones with Numeral cancellations?
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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

28 Feb 2016
08:25:14am

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re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

What years are you asking about? On the older issues the Netherlands postage dues are shades of blue and the Netherlands Indies stamps are shades of carmine.

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

28 Feb 2016
08:25:36am

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re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

That is actually very easy: the stamps have a distinct colour for each country: Netherlands blue, Netherlands Indies orange/red, Curaçao / Neth. Antilles green and Surinam purple.

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ikeyPikey
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28 Feb 2016
08:50:28am
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

"... the stamps have a distinct colour for each country: Netherlands blue, Netherlands Indies orange/red, Curaçao / Neth. Antilles green and Surinam purple ..."



Q/ Why do you suppose that the felt the need to make them different colors?

After all, postage due stamps are typically applied close the the final destination, so its not like a clerk in one place is going to ever see the postage due stamp used in another place.

Changing the ink is certainly cheaper than making a separate set of plates but, still, why bother distinguishing the postage due stamps used in one co-owned jurisdiction from another?

Cultural instinct?

Ah, wait ... were the definitives similarly distinguished?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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28 Feb 2016
09:50:28am
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

"Why do you suppose that the felt the need to make them different colors?"



Accounting.
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canadastan2015

28 Feb 2016
01:12:38pm
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

Hi everyone I am looking for the years 1874-1893

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ikeyPikey
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28 Feb 2016
01:27:57pm
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

"Accounting."



But how does the color matter?

After printing, the sheets don't sit about in piles, they are boxed.

Once they are boxed, it is the box that is counted, so how does it matter what color is in the box?

Nothing stops some dork from sending a red box to Greenland, or a green box to Blueland but, either way, one box went to Greenland, and one box went to Blueland, so where does the color enter the picture?

Once a box arrives in Greenland or Blueland, they (presumably) sign a receipt for the box so, again, how does the color matter?

Put another way, what would you be able to not count if the stamps were all of the same color?

Perhaps by 'accounting' we are really talking about 'control', eg, they were worried that a colony would be lost, and its postage due stamps would find their way to an unscrupulous postmaster.

But, then, any everyday theft of any postage due stamps would pose that same risk, as would any domestic theft of any stamps, period ...

Seems like the sort of thing they did just because it was the sort of thing they did.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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canadastan2015

28 Feb 2016
01:46:47pm
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

Hi Jansimon if the postage dues from Netherlands Indies during the years of 1874-1893 were as you say orange/red then the one listed on ebay item number:311551928388 is not a postage due from the Netherlands Indies?

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Jansimon
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28 Feb 2016
02:23:24pm

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re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

This is from the first set and these had not the colour scheme of the later issues. In this case it is from the Netherlands Indies because the 20 cent does not exist for the Netherlands.

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canadastan2015

05 Mar 2016
06:55:43am
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

I understand that there are two varieties of the Netherland Indies #1 to #10 what are those differences?

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simothecat

05 Mar 2016
11:42:01am
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

The first issue of the postage dues of Netherlands Indies consisted of four values (5, 10, 15, and 20 cent) in different colours and with the value in a fancy font.

The second set consists of 9 values with the frame in red, and the value as a large number in black. This is the set which has the number cancels.

I presume that you are asking about this second issue, in which the frame exists in 4 types. Separating these takes a bit of practice, but is not difficult when you know what to look for. (As a start, do not count the number of links in the chain as some catalogues suggest!)

As a bit of background, the first issue was printed from forms which consisted of individual cliches which included the value. These were disassembled and the values were drilled out. They were then reassembled higgledy-piggledy to print the frames of the second issue. The four types come from the four values of the first issue. For example the 5 cent cliches became the type IV frames.

If you are interested, I can post some scans so you can see the differences.

Jan

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canadastan2015

05 Mar 2016
01:33:21pm
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

I think simothecat you misunderstood what I was asking information on and that is the regular Dutch Indies numeral cancels for the towns #1 to #10.

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simothecat

05 Mar 2016
02:53:49pm
re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

Stan,

I don't think that you can speak of two types of these cancels. The larger offices probably had a number of these cancels at any time, and, as they were made by hand, there are sure to be differences. Also, if I recall correctly, they were made of brass, which wore relatively quickly. Thus you see examples with small dots (new), and huge dots (worn).

There was a web site (by Hans Kroese?) which had a lot of information on these, including many scans, but I now get a forbidden access error when I try to find it.

Jan

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Author/Postings
canadastan2015

28 Feb 2016
08:02:35am

How can one tell the difference between the postage dues of the Netherlands or the Netherland Indies especially ones with Numeral cancellations?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

28 Feb 2016
08:25:14am

Approvals

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

What years are you asking about? On the older issues the Netherlands postage dues are shades of blue and the Netherlands Indies stamps are shades of carmine.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
28 Feb 2016
08:25:36am

Approvals

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

That is actually very easy: the stamps have a distinct colour for each country: Netherlands blue, Netherlands Indies orange/red, Curaçao / Neth. Antilles green and Surinam purple.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

28 Feb 2016
08:50:28am

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

"... the stamps have a distinct colour for each country: Netherlands blue, Netherlands Indies orange/red, Curaçao / Neth. Antilles green and Surinam purple ..."



Q/ Why do you suppose that the felt the need to make them different colors?

After all, postage due stamps are typically applied close the the final destination, so its not like a clerk in one place is going to ever see the postage due stamp used in another place.

Changing the ink is certainly cheaper than making a separate set of plates but, still, why bother distinguishing the postage due stamps used in one co-owned jurisdiction from another?

Cultural instinct?

Ah, wait ... were the definitives similarly distinguished?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
28 Feb 2016
09:50:28am

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

"Why do you suppose that the felt the need to make them different colors?"



Accounting.
Like
Login to Like
this post

"BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50- 7,000 new covers coming October 6."

www.Buckacover.com
canadastan2015

28 Feb 2016
01:12:38pm

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

Hi everyone I am looking for the years 1874-1893

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

28 Feb 2016
01:27:57pm

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

"Accounting."



But how does the color matter?

After printing, the sheets don't sit about in piles, they are boxed.

Once they are boxed, it is the box that is counted, so how does it matter what color is in the box?

Nothing stops some dork from sending a red box to Greenland, or a green box to Blueland but, either way, one box went to Greenland, and one box went to Blueland, so where does the color enter the picture?

Once a box arrives in Greenland or Blueland, they (presumably) sign a receipt for the box so, again, how does the color matter?

Put another way, what would you be able to not count if the stamps were all of the same color?

Perhaps by 'accounting' we are really talking about 'control', eg, they were worried that a colony would be lost, and its postage due stamps would find their way to an unscrupulous postmaster.

But, then, any everyday theft of any postage due stamps would pose that same risk, as would any domestic theft of any stamps, period ...

Seems like the sort of thing they did just because it was the sort of thing they did.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
Like
Login to Like
this post

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
canadastan2015

28 Feb 2016
01:46:47pm

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

Hi Jansimon if the postage dues from Netherlands Indies during the years of 1874-1893 were as you say orange/red then the one listed on ebay item number:311551928388 is not a postage due from the Netherlands Indies?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
28 Feb 2016
02:23:24pm

Approvals

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

This is from the first set and these had not the colour scheme of the later issues. In this case it is from the Netherlands Indies because the 20 cent does not exist for the Netherlands.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
canadastan2015

05 Mar 2016
06:55:43am

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

I understand that there are two varieties of the Netherland Indies #1 to #10 what are those differences?

Like
Login to Like
this post
simothecat

05 Mar 2016
11:42:01am

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

The first issue of the postage dues of Netherlands Indies consisted of four values (5, 10, 15, and 20 cent) in different colours and with the value in a fancy font.

The second set consists of 9 values with the frame in red, and the value as a large number in black. This is the set which has the number cancels.

I presume that you are asking about this second issue, in which the frame exists in 4 types. Separating these takes a bit of practice, but is not difficult when you know what to look for. (As a start, do not count the number of links in the chain as some catalogues suggest!)

As a bit of background, the first issue was printed from forms which consisted of individual cliches which included the value. These were disassembled and the values were drilled out. They were then reassembled higgledy-piggledy to print the frames of the second issue. The four types come from the four values of the first issue. For example the 5 cent cliches became the type IV frames.

If you are interested, I can post some scans so you can see the differences.

Jan

Like
Login to Like
this post
canadastan2015

05 Mar 2016
01:33:21pm

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

I think simothecat you misunderstood what I was asking information on and that is the regular Dutch Indies numeral cancels for the towns #1 to #10.

Like
Login to Like
this post
simothecat

05 Mar 2016
02:53:49pm

re: Netherlands/Netherlands Indies #1 to #10

Stan,

I don't think that you can speak of two types of these cancels. The larger offices probably had a number of these cancels at any time, and, as they were made by hand, there are sure to be differences. Also, if I recall correctly, they were made of brass, which wore relatively quickly. Thus you see examples with small dots (new), and huge dots (worn).

There was a web site (by Hans Kroese?) which had a lot of information on these, including many scans, but I now get a forbidden access error when I try to find it.

Jan

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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