Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Now is this just the layman's interpretation or does it have any legal force.
Frequently I have put in an offer and never heard anything from a seller and the item goes unsold. Not I hasten to add on our site.
I understand that an item can have a reserve price, which incidentally I feel should be visible, but it seems sellers on that "other" large site hide behind a curtain of anonymity and are free to alter terms as they wish.
Anyone have any thoughts or advice on the legal aspects?
Vic
Going back to bed now and getting out the other side to see if things are different.
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I have always interpreted "or best offer" to mean that offers will be considered, not that there is any requirement for the seller to sell the item unless that offer is acceptable to him.
I had an offer on Bidstart to sell a 20 cent stamp for 20 cents plus 49 cents S/H because that was all it was going to cost me in postage. I responded.
Simple economics makes that impossible - this is my cost to sell and ship a 20 cent item. All packaging materials are new.
102 card - .03
glassine - .05
stiffener - .04 (1/3 of a file folder)
envelope - .02
postage - .49
bidstart fee .04
TOTAL .67 - let's add Paypal
Paypal fee .34
TOTAL 1.01 ( My actual selling and shipping cost on a normal sale for a 20 cent stamp.
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I'm selling a car at the moment for $$ or best offer;
however, I am certainly not required to sell it to the highest offer, especially if the highest offer thus far is well below my asking price and/or the actual market value of said vehicle.
I understand how this could be maddening at times, especially from the buyer's point of view, but it is what it is....
Just an example here....
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Fixed-price lots are sold to the first person who pays that price; "or best offer" is best read as "or I will consider your (lower) best offer, and make a decision to sell, or wait for my price".
Auction lots sell at the highest price received before closing.
A reserve price applies to an auction lot, and is usually never revealed ... it was reached, or it was not.
A buy-it-now price applies to an auction lot, and appeals to a bidder who is ready to buy, and does not want the auction to run to completion, lest the bidding go even higher than the BIN price.
An auction with a high starting price is a lot like a fixed-price lot, with the seller assured of a good price, while holding out hope that a bidding war will drive the price higher.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Thanks all, I was more interested to know what the legal position was, should there actually be one. Searching the web gives a few possibles but nothing of a definite conclusion.
I guess it comes down to whether the offer is to sell or is a request for offers to purchase, I just find it irritating that sometimes there is not the courtesy of a reply to an offer, even if reasonable.
Vic
ps getting out the other side of the bed didn't help as I hit the wall.
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"ps getting out the other side of the bed didn't help as I hit the wall."
Don't ya just hate when that happens.....
TuskenRaider
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Thanks Ian, will bear that in mind.
Now back to the Major Colonel Bloodnocks Rock and Roll call rumble.
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12:53:03am
"... however, I am certainly not required to sell it to the highest offer, especially if the highest offer thus far is well below my asking price and/or the actual market value of said vehicle. ..."
I never gave this situation much thought but my first one is a question.
Is it fair to solicit a 'best offer' when, in fact, the seller actually has a reserve in mind, whether in writing or in not?
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1. "Best" does not equate to "Highest."
2. "Offer," by definition, means to present something for someone to accept or reject.
T
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A variation of this is "Or Near Offer", again when you see this it's just an indicator that the seller isn't FIRM no their price but will give a little. And it's in the negotiation, a seller isn't obligated to accept any offer. And until you have a "meeting of the minds" where the seller and buyer agree, you don't have a deal.
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I take "or best offer" to mean that the seller is simply willing to negotiate. Not that they are in any way obligated to make the sale if an offer is made. It also means they are open to alternatives. If someone is selling a vintage motorcycle for $1000 OBO and I offer a used van worth $950, the seller may take my offer over a cash offer of $1000 if a van is exactly what he needed at the time. OBO simply means "Talk to me. Perhaps we can work something out." It certainly does NOT mean, "I will sell this car for $1 if that's the only offer I get."
Any talk of legal remedies for a seller choosing not to consummate the deal in an OBO situation is ludicrous. Even if you offered asking price, someone else could have offered something better. Until the proverbial handshake to seal the deal, it's all just talk.
Lars
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12:12:56pm
I take "OBOs" to mean "I will take the best offer" and I think that there was a case in Suffolk County, New York where the county Office of Weights and Measures which enforces some strict sales rules enforced just such an offer. I believe a reasonable offer had been made, based on the advertised "OBO" but the seller thought it was too low.
There may have been some other details, that I do not recall, since I moved to Florida thirty years ago.
For example, if a commercial seller offered something as a half price sale, or "BOGO" sale, the seller had to be able to prove that a substantial number of the items had been on sale and sold at the full price the previous 30 or 60 days. One of my competitors was fined for violating that one.
I was amazed that Florida had almost no fair trade rules or was unwilling to enforce them.
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Under Common Law, entrance into a contract requires both an offer and a subsequent acceptance of that offer.
An offer is an expression of willingness to contract on certain terms, made with the intention that it shall become binding as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom it is addressed, the “offereeâ€
Acceptance is a final and unqualified expression of assent to the terms of an offer by the offeree.
So if a seller ignores an offer they are not proffering an acceptance, hence no contract to sell comes into being.
The seller may make a counter offer, to the original offerer, and that party accepts the offer then a contract comes into being. If, on the other hand, the original offerer ignores or rejects the counter offer, then no contract to sell comes into being.
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06:13:47pm
I am well aware of common law and a contract's prerequisites, and I did say that there may have been some other details as it was some thirty years ago. But that is what I recall from the days when I ran a business there.
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Not sure if this is not just a ramble but I have always understood that if something was to be sold, at a price or best offer, then at the end of original time period for the sale the item should be sold at the highest offer. If not previously purchased outright.
Now is this just the layman's interpretation or does it have any legal force.
Frequently I have put in an offer and never heard anything from a seller and the item goes unsold. Not I hasten to add on our site.
I understand that an item can have a reserve price, which incidentally I feel should be visible, but it seems sellers on that "other" large site hide behind a curtain of anonymity and are free to alter terms as they wish.
Anyone have any thoughts or advice on the legal aspects?
Vic
Going back to bed now and getting out the other side to see if things are different.
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11:19:23am
re: Or best offer (OBO)
I have always interpreted "or best offer" to mean that offers will be considered, not that there is any requirement for the seller to sell the item unless that offer is acceptable to him.
I had an offer on Bidstart to sell a 20 cent stamp for 20 cents plus 49 cents S/H because that was all it was going to cost me in postage. I responded.
Simple economics makes that impossible - this is my cost to sell and ship a 20 cent item. All packaging materials are new.
102 card - .03
glassine - .05
stiffener - .04 (1/3 of a file folder)
envelope - .02
postage - .49
bidstart fee .04
TOTAL .67 - let's add Paypal
Paypal fee .34
TOTAL 1.01 ( My actual selling and shipping cost on a normal sale for a 20 cent stamp.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Or best offer (OBO)
I'm selling a car at the moment for $$ or best offer;
however, I am certainly not required to sell it to the highest offer, especially if the highest offer thus far is well below my asking price and/or the actual market value of said vehicle.
I understand how this could be maddening at times, especially from the buyer's point of view, but it is what it is....
Just an example here....
Login to Like
this post
re: Or best offer (OBO)
Fixed-price lots are sold to the first person who pays that price; "or best offer" is best read as "or I will consider your (lower) best offer, and make a decision to sell, or wait for my price".
Auction lots sell at the highest price received before closing.
A reserve price applies to an auction lot, and is usually never revealed ... it was reached, or it was not.
A buy-it-now price applies to an auction lot, and appeals to a bidder who is ready to buy, and does not want the auction to run to completion, lest the bidding go even higher than the BIN price.
An auction with a high starting price is a lot like a fixed-price lot, with the seller assured of a good price, while holding out hope that a bidding war will drive the price higher.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Or best offer (OBO)
Thanks all, I was more interested to know what the legal position was, should there actually be one. Searching the web gives a few possibles but nothing of a definite conclusion.
I guess it comes down to whether the offer is to sell or is a request for offers to purchase, I just find it irritating that sometimes there is not the courtesy of a reply to an offer, even if reasonable.
Vic
ps getting out the other side of the bed didn't help as I hit the wall.
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re: Or best offer (OBO)
"ps getting out the other side of the bed didn't help as I hit the wall."
Don't ya just hate when that happens.....
TuskenRaider
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re: Or best offer (OBO)
Thanks Ian, will bear that in mind.
Now back to the Major Colonel Bloodnocks Rock and Roll call rumble.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Feb 2016
12:53:03am
re: Or best offer (OBO)
"... however, I am certainly not required to sell it to the highest offer, especially if the highest offer thus far is well below my asking price and/or the actual market value of said vehicle. ..."
I never gave this situation much thought but my first one is a question.
Is it fair to solicit a 'best offer' when, in fact, the seller actually has a reserve in mind, whether in writing or in not?
Login to Like
this post
re: Or best offer (OBO)
1. "Best" does not equate to "Highest."
2. "Offer," by definition, means to present something for someone to accept or reject.
T
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Or best offer (OBO)
A variation of this is "Or Near Offer", again when you see this it's just an indicator that the seller isn't FIRM no their price but will give a little. And it's in the negotiation, a seller isn't obligated to accept any offer. And until you have a "meeting of the minds" where the seller and buyer agree, you don't have a deal.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Or best offer (OBO)
I take "or best offer" to mean that the seller is simply willing to negotiate. Not that they are in any way obligated to make the sale if an offer is made. It also means they are open to alternatives. If someone is selling a vintage motorcycle for $1000 OBO and I offer a used van worth $950, the seller may take my offer over a cash offer of $1000 if a van is exactly what he needed at the time. OBO simply means "Talk to me. Perhaps we can work something out." It certainly does NOT mean, "I will sell this car for $1 if that's the only offer I get."
Any talk of legal remedies for a seller choosing not to consummate the deal in an OBO situation is ludicrous. Even if you offered asking price, someone else could have offered something better. Until the proverbial handshake to seal the deal, it's all just talk.
Lars
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
03 Mar 2016
12:12:56pm
re: Or best offer (OBO)
I take "OBOs" to mean "I will take the best offer" and I think that there was a case in Suffolk County, New York where the county Office of Weights and Measures which enforces some strict sales rules enforced just such an offer. I believe a reasonable offer had been made, based on the advertised "OBO" but the seller thought it was too low.
There may have been some other details, that I do not recall, since I moved to Florida thirty years ago.
For example, if a commercial seller offered something as a half price sale, or "BOGO" sale, the seller had to be able to prove that a substantial number of the items had been on sale and sold at the full price the previous 30 or 60 days. One of my competitors was fined for violating that one.
I was amazed that Florida had almost no fair trade rules or was unwilling to enforce them.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Or best offer (OBO)
Under Common Law, entrance into a contract requires both an offer and a subsequent acceptance of that offer.
An offer is an expression of willingness to contract on certain terms, made with the intention that it shall become binding as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom it is addressed, the “offereeâ€
Acceptance is a final and unqualified expression of assent to the terms of an offer by the offeree.
So if a seller ignores an offer they are not proffering an acceptance, hence no contract to sell comes into being.
The seller may make a counter offer, to the original offerer, and that party accepts the offer then a contract comes into being. If, on the other hand, the original offerer ignores or rejects the counter offer, then no contract to sell comes into being.
2 Members
like this post.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
03 Mar 2016
06:13:47pm
re: Or best offer (OBO)
I am well aware of common law and a contract's prerequisites, and I did say that there may have been some other details as it was some thirty years ago. But that is what I recall from the days when I ran a business there.
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