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General Philatelic/Identify This? : can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

 

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

22 Feb 2016
08:30:33am
I could use some help, please

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Image Not Found

thanks, David
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Ningpo
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22 Feb 2016
08:49:57am
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

First image, right hand orange stamp: 1920 MARCHE PER TASSA LUSSO E SCAMBI = LUXURY & EXCHANGE TAX MARK.

First image, left hand stamp: SC#37 1877 Official Surcharge Francobollo Di Stato Kingdom.

Can't guarantee though.

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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

22 Feb 2016
08:54:42am
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

top left: Italy Scott #37

Roy

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nigelc
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22 Feb 2016
08:56:09am
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

Hi Dave,

First row are:

1. Italy 1878.

2. Italian revenue.

Second row:

1. Poland revenue 1919.

2. Italian revenue from Milan.

Third row:

1. Vietnam 1945.

2. Kwangchow 1927.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

22 Feb 2016
09:22:46am
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

thank you all. I figured I would never get the revenues; but maybe a little more perserverence would have gotten me the Italian and VN stamps.

thanks so much

David the wiser

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Bobstamp
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22 Feb 2016
12:51:30pm
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

The 5-cent brown Vietnam stamp is actually an issue of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam, 1945-1946, headed by Ho Chi Minh. It was not issued without the overprint. All DRVN stamps at that time for many years after were issued without gum.

Image Not Found

The basic stamp is a colonial issue of Vichy France, where it was printed. Vichy had little luck in Vietnam since it was taken over by the Japanese in a "soft" occupation — they wanted the use Indochinese railroads to move troops into southern China — and then in 1945 in a "hard" occupation which removed all French authority in Indochina.

The stamp pictures the French Admiral Charles Rigault de Genouilly (born April 12, 1807, in Rochefort, France, died May 4, 1873, in Barcelona). He initiated the French invasion of Vietnam in 1858 and the subsequent conquest of Cochinchina, now southern Vietnam. Few of the Viet Minh issues were used on mail, apparently because there was little mail being posted in 1945-1946. Probably many of the stamps were issued for sale to collectors.

According to Google Translate, the overprint — "DOC-LAP TU-DO HANH-PHOC" translates to "Independence - Freedom - Happiness". "BU CHINH" means "Postal".

Here's a cover in my collection, franked with other Vichy Indochina stamps. It was postmarked October 29, 1945.

Image Not Found

The following timeline shows some of the events in Indochina at that time:

"September 22, 1945 - In South Vietnam, 1400 French soldiers released by the British from former Japanese internment camps enter Saigon and go on a deadly rampage, attacking Viet Minh and killing innocent civilians including children, aided by French civilians who joined the rampage. An estimated 20,000 French civilians live in Saigon.

September 24, 1945 - In Saigon, Viet Minh successfully organize a general strike shutting down all commerce along with electricity and water supplies. In a suburb of Saigon, members of Binh Xuyen, a Vietnamese criminal organization, massacre 150 French and Eurasian civilians, including children.

September 26, 1945 - The first American death in Vietnam occurs, during the unrest in Saigon, as OSS officer Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey is killed by Viet Minh guerrillas who mistook him for a French officer. Before his death, Dewey had filed a report on the deepening crisis in Vietnam, stating his opinion that the U.S. "ought to clear out of Southeast Asia."

October 1945 - 35,000 French soldiers under the command of World War II General Jacques Philippe Leclerc arrive in South Vietnam to restore French rule. Viet Minh immediately begin a guerrilla campaign to harass them. The French then succeed in expelling the Viet Minh from Saigon."



Less than 14 months later, the First Indochina War would begin.



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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

22 Feb 2016
10:17:41pm
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

I suppose Tu Do Street's name (Freedom Street) was changed when the North invaded Saigon.

Tu-Do Street



Listen

"Music divides the evening.
I close my eyes & can see
men drawing lines in the dust.
America pushes through the membrane
of mist & smoke, & I'm a small boy
again in Bogalusa.
White Only signs & Hank Snow.
But tonight
I walk into a place where bar girls
fade like tropical birds. When
I order a beer, the mama-san
behind the counter acts as if she
can't understand, while her eyes
skirt each white face, as Hank Williams
calls from the psychedelic jukebox.
We have played Judas where
only machine-gun fire brings us
together. Down the street
black GIs hold to their turf also.
An off-limits sign pulls me
deeper into alleys, as I look
for a softness behind these voices
wounded by their beauty & war.
Back in the bush at Dak To
& Khe Sanh, we fought
the brothers of these women
we now run to hold in our arms.
There's more than a nation
inside us, as black & white
soldiers touch the same lovers
minutes apart, tasting
each other's breath,
without knowing these rooms
run into each other like tunnels
leading to the underworld. "


By Yusef Komunyakaa

However, it wasn't all that sleazy in the daylight.
Next to the Caravelle Hotel I found a small stamp shop
where I bought some stamps and a thick blue stock book that I still own.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Guthrum
Members Picture


23 Feb 2016
03:49:45am
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

http://saigon-vietnam.fr/tu-do-street.php

Komunyakaa is not a poet I was familiar with, but his rhythms seem to have infused your final comment, Charlie!

I just checked out the poem and the place - and all this from Bob's gloss on one of the stamps in David's post!

Down the street
black GIs hold to their turf also.


...I gather Komunyakaa (then 'James Brown') was a black GI as well, no? Yet here he seems to be shifting identity a bit. Interesting.

Many stamps have a story, and some provoke them. They are the ones I prefer to read about, and collect.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

23 Feb 2016
06:27:39pm
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

"... Komunyakaa was not a poet I am familiar with. ..."

Me neither. Certainly not my cup of tea. However I came across the Tu-do Street poem while doing some research for one of my daughters who was writing a short essay on some aspects of the Vietnam Unpleasentness.
At first I was about to skip past it and seek more traditional information, but some words that didn't rhyme caught my eye and once I started reading it closely I was hooked.
I can't speak for the Black experience but I've been down those alleys and dealt with the situation s in which I'd go ashore with a couple of shipmates and at some unseen point several would break off and proceed to a self segregated club or bar. Komunyakaa captured the mood of the time, the place and the character.
Image Not Found
At one time I had dozens of cards from more than a dozen ports just like this one.

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likes this post.
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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Bobstamp
Members Picture


23 Feb 2016
11:37:00pm
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

Charlie's post brings back some memories for me, not that I frequented such establishments as the Princess Bar. You'd have to look for me at the ballet or the art gallery. Well, not always, I guess. There was that time in Okinawa when I hocked my camera and went bar hopping with some buddies, and, well… But hey, I'd read every book in the base library and there really wasn't anything else to do on liberty but drink!

I didn't personally experience any racial problems with the marines in Vietnam, or in Okinawa for that matter, but I have an Hispanic friend who did. He's told me that while we were training in Okinawa, he had to hang out with other Hispanic marines, and also had to avoid the areas that African American marines had staked out as their own. He also told me how a white corpsman refused to treat a minor combat wound he had received, and that he was told he would be called a coward if he ran across an open space to avoid sniper fire, but white marines were praised for being smart smart if they did the same thing. I should add that this particular marine veteran has a 200% disability rating for physical and psychological wounds that he received in Vietnam.

I was witness to an incident of "reverse racism" in Japan. Three other corpsmen and I had gone out for dinner at a small Japanese restaurant in Yokosuka, where we were stationed. Three of us were white; one, Mike, was an African American. We were sitting, talking quietly and enjoying our meal, when a couple of African American shore patrolmen (navy police) came in. One pointed to Mike and gestured for him to come and talk with them. They spoke for a minute, and then Mike came back to the table, telling us he had to leave. "They don't want talking to 'Honkies,'" he said. "If I don't leave they'll arrest me."

This American stamp portrays Hispanic Americans in a bright, patriotic light. I think they deserve that stamp, but it has to be admitted that it was issued as propaganda rather than an expression of pride in America's so-called "melting pot".

Image Not Found

Bob





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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

24 Feb 2016
02:49:40am
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

There was a Princess Bar in every port, even in Soho, but sometimes they had fancy names.
But in Naha the place to be, at least when one of the Coast Guard Cutters was in port, was "The Teahouse of the August Moon," named after the fictional club in the '50s book of the same name.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Redneck75

24 Feb 2016
09:32:45pm
re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

I am 75 and so glad to read all of these posts,save all for memories.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
22 Feb 2016
08:30:33am

I could use some help, please

Image Not Found

Image Not Found
Image Not Found

thanks, David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
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Ningpo

22 Feb 2016
08:49:57am

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

First image, right hand orange stamp: 1920 MARCHE PER TASSA LUSSO E SCAMBI = LUXURY & EXCHANGE TAX MARK.

First image, left hand stamp: SC#37 1877 Official Surcharge Francobollo Di Stato Kingdom.

Can't guarantee though.

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this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
22 Feb 2016
08:54:42am

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

top left: Italy Scott #37

Roy

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"BuckaCover.com - Since 2003 - Over One million covers sold - What have you been missing?"

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nigelc

22 Feb 2016
08:56:09am

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

Hi Dave,

First row are:

1. Italy 1878.

2. Italian revenue.

Second row:

1. Poland revenue 1919.

2. Italian revenue from Milan.

Third row:

1. Vietnam 1945.

2. Kwangchow 1927.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
22 Feb 2016
09:22:46am

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

thank you all. I figured I would never get the revenues; but maybe a little more perserverence would have gotten me the Italian and VN stamps.

thanks so much

David the wiser

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Bobstamp

22 Feb 2016
12:51:30pm

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

The 5-cent brown Vietnam stamp is actually an issue of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam, 1945-1946, headed by Ho Chi Minh. It was not issued without the overprint. All DRVN stamps at that time for many years after were issued without gum.

Image Not Found

The basic stamp is a colonial issue of Vichy France, where it was printed. Vichy had little luck in Vietnam since it was taken over by the Japanese in a "soft" occupation — they wanted the use Indochinese railroads to move troops into southern China — and then in 1945 in a "hard" occupation which removed all French authority in Indochina.

The stamp pictures the French Admiral Charles Rigault de Genouilly (born April 12, 1807, in Rochefort, France, died May 4, 1873, in Barcelona). He initiated the French invasion of Vietnam in 1858 and the subsequent conquest of Cochinchina, now southern Vietnam. Few of the Viet Minh issues were used on mail, apparently because there was little mail being posted in 1945-1946. Probably many of the stamps were issued for sale to collectors.

According to Google Translate, the overprint — "DOC-LAP TU-DO HANH-PHOC" translates to "Independence - Freedom - Happiness". "BU CHINH" means "Postal".

Here's a cover in my collection, franked with other Vichy Indochina stamps. It was postmarked October 29, 1945.

Image Not Found

The following timeline shows some of the events in Indochina at that time:

"September 22, 1945 - In South Vietnam, 1400 French soldiers released by the British from former Japanese internment camps enter Saigon and go on a deadly rampage, attacking Viet Minh and killing innocent civilians including children, aided by French civilians who joined the rampage. An estimated 20,000 French civilians live in Saigon.

September 24, 1945 - In Saigon, Viet Minh successfully organize a general strike shutting down all commerce along with electricity and water supplies. In a suburb of Saigon, members of Binh Xuyen, a Vietnamese criminal organization, massacre 150 French and Eurasian civilians, including children.

September 26, 1945 - The first American death in Vietnam occurs, during the unrest in Saigon, as OSS officer Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey is killed by Viet Minh guerrillas who mistook him for a French officer. Before his death, Dewey had filed a report on the deepening crisis in Vietnam, stating his opinion that the U.S. "ought to clear out of Southeast Asia."

October 1945 - 35,000 French soldiers under the command of World War II General Jacques Philippe Leclerc arrive in South Vietnam to restore French rule. Viet Minh immediately begin a guerrilla campaign to harass them. The French then succeed in expelling the Viet Minh from Saigon."



Less than 14 months later, the First Indochina War would begin.



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like this post.
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www.ephemeraltreasur ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Feb 2016
10:17:41pm

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

I suppose Tu Do Street's name (Freedom Street) was changed when the North invaded Saigon.

Tu-Do Street



Listen

"Music divides the evening.
I close my eyes & can see
men drawing lines in the dust.
America pushes through the membrane
of mist & smoke, & I'm a small boy
again in Bogalusa.
White Only signs & Hank Snow.
But tonight
I walk into a place where bar girls
fade like tropical birds. When
I order a beer, the mama-san
behind the counter acts as if she
can't understand, while her eyes
skirt each white face, as Hank Williams
calls from the psychedelic jukebox.
We have played Judas where
only machine-gun fire brings us
together. Down the street
black GIs hold to their turf also.
An off-limits sign pulls me
deeper into alleys, as I look
for a softness behind these voices
wounded by their beauty & war.
Back in the bush at Dak To
& Khe Sanh, we fought
the brothers of these women
we now run to hold in our arms.
There's more than a nation
inside us, as black & white
soldiers touch the same lovers
minutes apart, tasting
each other's breath,
without knowing these rooms
run into each other like tunnels
leading to the underworld. "


By Yusef Komunyakaa

However, it wasn't all that sleazy in the daylight.
Next to the Caravelle Hotel I found a small stamp shop
where I bought some stamps and a thick blue stock book that I still own.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
Guthrum

23 Feb 2016
03:49:45am

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

http://saigon-vietnam.fr/tu-do-street.php

Komunyakaa is not a poet I was familiar with, but his rhythms seem to have infused your final comment, Charlie!

I just checked out the poem and the place - and all this from Bob's gloss on one of the stamps in David's post!

Down the street
black GIs hold to their turf also.


...I gather Komunyakaa (then 'James Brown') was a black GI as well, no? Yet here he seems to be shifting identity a bit. Interesting.

Many stamps have a story, and some provoke them. They are the ones I prefer to read about, and collect.

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Feb 2016
06:27:39pm

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

"... Komunyakaa was not a poet I am familiar with. ..."

Me neither. Certainly not my cup of tea. However I came across the Tu-do Street poem while doing some research for one of my daughters who was writing a short essay on some aspects of the Vietnam Unpleasentness.
At first I was about to skip past it and seek more traditional information, but some words that didn't rhyme caught my eye and once I started reading it closely I was hooked.
I can't speak for the Black experience but I've been down those alleys and dealt with the situation s in which I'd go ashore with a couple of shipmates and at some unseen point several would break off and proceed to a self segregated club or bar. Komunyakaa captured the mood of the time, the place and the character.
Image Not Found
At one time I had dozens of cards from more than a dozen ports just like this one.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
Bobstamp

23 Feb 2016
11:37:00pm

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

Charlie's post brings back some memories for me, not that I frequented such establishments as the Princess Bar. You'd have to look for me at the ballet or the art gallery. Well, not always, I guess. There was that time in Okinawa when I hocked my camera and went bar hopping with some buddies, and, well… But hey, I'd read every book in the base library and there really wasn't anything else to do on liberty but drink!

I didn't personally experience any racial problems with the marines in Vietnam, or in Okinawa for that matter, but I have an Hispanic friend who did. He's told me that while we were training in Okinawa, he had to hang out with other Hispanic marines, and also had to avoid the areas that African American marines had staked out as their own. He also told me how a white corpsman refused to treat a minor combat wound he had received, and that he was told he would be called a coward if he ran across an open space to avoid sniper fire, but white marines were praised for being smart smart if they did the same thing. I should add that this particular marine veteran has a 200% disability rating for physical and psychological wounds that he received in Vietnam.

I was witness to an incident of "reverse racism" in Japan. Three other corpsmen and I had gone out for dinner at a small Japanese restaurant in Yokosuka, where we were stationed. Three of us were white; one, Mike, was an African American. We were sitting, talking quietly and enjoying our meal, when a couple of African American shore patrolmen (navy police) came in. One pointed to Mike and gestured for him to come and talk with them. They spoke for a minute, and then Mike came back to the table, telling us he had to leave. "They don't want talking to 'Honkies,'" he said. "If I don't leave they'll arrest me."

This American stamp portrays Hispanic Americans in a bright, patriotic light. I think they deserve that stamp, but it has to be admitted that it was issued as propaganda rather than an expression of pride in America's so-called "melting pot".

Image Not Found

Bob





Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.ephemeraltreasur ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
24 Feb 2016
02:49:40am

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

There was a Princess Bar in every port, even in Soho, but sometimes they had fancy names.
But in Naha the place to be, at least when one of the Coast Guard Cutters was in port, was "The Teahouse of the August Moon," named after the fictional club in the '50s book of the same name.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Redneck75

24 Feb 2016
09:32:45pm

re: can you help please with Indo China, something probably Italian, and, for me, UFOs

I am 75 and so glad to read all of these posts,save all for memories.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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