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General Philatelic/Newcomer Cnr : Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

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FamilyArchiver
05 Feb 2016
09:03:49pm
Years ago, I inherited my great-grandparents' collection of letters, photos, postcards, etc., most of it from 1903-1929. After many years of procrastinating, I have started to organize the letters and postcards to take to an upcoming stamp, postcard and antique paper show. Here's where I run into a problem. As I sort postcards by category, I question if I should hold out a slogan cancel, for instance, or just trust that buyers look for that. I also don't know what to do regarding the letters inside envelopes. Do I put in sleeves and label any topics of interest, or just market the stamps/postmarks?


Thanks in advance for any advice you have for me. This is a solitary job and I have no clue what I'm doing!
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Ningpo
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05 Feb 2016
09:26:59pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Depending on the contents, letters can be an important part of the whole cover (called an 'entire').

Postcards can appeal to pure postcard collectors but can also be of interest to postal history collectors, depending on the postal markings; and of course slogan postmark collectors.

It certainly does no harm to label an item with details. It's down to how much time and effort you can put into it.

It would really help if you could post a few sample images, then members may be able to guide you more.

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FamilyArchiver
05 Feb 2016
09:38:13pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Thank you!

Entire- my vocab word for the day. Happy That helps, but also makes me wonder- will a postcard dealer make an offer based on postcard face that is perhaps lower than the value of the postmark? I've not had a postcard collector reference stamp or postmark value before. Maybe the opportunity just never presented itself.

I'd be happy to post images, but where to start? There are hundreds and hundreds.

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Ningpo
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05 Feb 2016
09:54:00pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

It really does depend on the dealer. Probably most postcard dealers care little about the written side and so it is quite possible that you might be offered less if the postmarks turned out to be more 'collectible'.

Of course there are dealers who are also familiar with philatelic aspects. It would seem that you are in a difficult spot here, in that without having knowledge of what you are trying to sell, you may find yourself taken advantage of.

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Webpaper
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05 Feb 2016
09:56:51pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Are you going to be selling these items to collectors at the show individually or are you taking them to the show to sell to dealers?

The preparation requirements are totally different. Unless you have individual cards of high value in excellent condition most dealers will make an offer based on observed quality and rough quantity (how many shoe boxes for example).

We will be able to offer a lot better advice knowing some details. Ningpo is correct on the problems of selling to a dealer without you personally knowing what you have.

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FamilyArchiver
05 Feb 2016
10:16:03pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

On one hand, it's validating that my concern is founded, but now I'm even more concerned, haha!

As to your question, Webpaper, I wasn't even aware both dealers and collectors buy at these shows. I've never been t one, so I have no clue what to expect.

Would I be better off sending whole collection somewhere to be auctioned?


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sheepshanks
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05 Feb 2016
10:28:18pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

If it is any help, at a recent auction here in Manitoba I put a bid of $110 Canadian, on an assortment of old picture postcards, (around 100 in total) all with stamps and of the 1920-1950 period. They eventually got split into two lots and both sold for 130- 150 dollars each lot.
If this is your own family history, or even not, maybe scan and preserve a copy for your future generations before they leave your possession.
If the postcards are views, maybe search the web for other sellers and their prices.
Vic

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Ningpo
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05 Feb 2016
10:30:26pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Depending on what your timescales are, perhaps a reconnaissance might be in order. Just go along and see what goes on and talk to dealers about what they buy and how they buy. Take a small random selection and see what the response is from different dealers.

As for auction; you may well realise even less than you might hope, if it is sold as one bulk lot.

The route you take depends on the effort you want to put in and the minimum return you are hoping for. I hope you aren't under pressure to dispose of this collection quickly, as this will not be to your advantage.

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FamilyArchiver
05 Feb 2016
10:53:19pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

No, no rush, Ningpo. My main motivation to resolve this quickly is to do it before I lose my nerve. Again. Happy

Sounds like auction isn't the way to go. Thank you so much for the discussion. It really helps to be able to talk to knowledgeable people such as yourselves.

Sheepshanks, thanks for your response. Maybe it's because I've been staring at postcards and letters all day, but I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. Is it that at the end of the day, my postcards might only be worth $2.60-$3 each? I'm sure many are in that range, some even less. But given the vast majority were postmarked 1905-1920, surely it's worth considering the postmarks before selling as a lot to a postcard collector, yes?

As for your advice about scanning those of personal interest, I like that idea. I've searched those I suspect are most collectible, but am quickly learning I'm not always right about what is most popular/rarest.

The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know!


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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
05 Feb 2016
11:08:50pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Quote:

" Is it that at the end of the day, my postcards might only be worth $2.60-$3 each? I'm sure many are in that range, some even less. But given the vast majority were postmarked 1905-1920, surely it's worth considering the postmarks before selling as a lot to a postcard collector, yes?"



I'm one of the guys who look at the "wrong side" of the postcards. I collect postal usage on the stamp pictured as my avatar, in the 1903-09 time frame. As a one cent stamp, the majority of my stuff is on postcard. I find a lot of my good postmarks by going through the postcard categories on eBay. I like territorials, several states were still US territories during this time period. I like interesting date cancels.
Image Not Found
Arizona Territorial Card.

Image Not Found
Indian Territory Card

Image Not Found
Mailed on Christmas Eve, Received on Christmas Day!

Image Not Found
And for an encore, here's a Leap Year card!




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sheepshanks
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05 Feb 2016
11:39:23pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Most postcards sell for maybe 3 to 10 dollars on ebay. If an unusual stamp or addressed to or from a known personage somewhat more. Same applies with a commemorated event. To a cancel or post office cancellation collector, if a now closed / defunct office, possibly more still.
When you consider the number of cards that were posted at the turn of the century the stamps are likely to be low denomination and were issued in millions. Remember a postcard would have arrived far quicker then, possibly the same day in most towns, than todays post. They were used as we use a phone today.
Maybe just scan three from different periods, upload them as jpegs around 900 pixels wide and the combined knowledge of Stamporama will weigh in with a much better idea of worth.
Whichever way you choose to go please allow our members who collect such items the chance of besting any dealers offers. You could always put a couple up on our auction site to test the waters.
On a personal note, as our families historian, I would treasure some papers, letters etc from my parents or grandparents to give me an insight into their daily lives. Alas not to be as none seem to exist.
Vic

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ikeyPikey
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05 Feb 2016
11:54:22pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

FamilyArchiver, Greetings:

A box of stuff is a box of stuff, and will get you a box-of-stuff-price, pretty much regardless of the venue (collector at show, dealer at store, bidder at auction).

The way to add value is to learn enough to better describe each piece (or group of similar pieces) and, as your learn to do that, identify which items might be worth selling individually, and which items would appeal to whom & for what reason.

You need to ask yourself how many hours you are willing to put into adding value, and what value you might hope to achieve.

First Principle: there are lots & lots of old postcards & old letters bearing old stamps & old postal markings.

If it were me, I'd run a few up the flagpole, and see who salutes ... or, if you prefer that in English, pick a few & post them right here, in this thread.

Some of the things we'll then be looking at will include:

- the stamp

- the slogan killer (unusual? legible?)

- the city of origin (some folks collect their home town)

- the machine that applied the postmark/slogan (some folks collect by type)

- the addressee

- the address (perhaps a stop on the underground railroad) (true example)

- the sender

Be bold, and post!

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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ikeyPikey
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06 Feb 2016
12:02:20am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Quote:

"... Most postcards sell for maybe 3 to 10 dollars on ebay ..."



I routinely buy auction lots of postcards, typically paying 10c each.

I routinely rut thru dealers' bargain boxes of postcards, paying 15-25c each.

That having been said, there are plenty of postcards that sell for a few dollars each.

Most often, a box of old family paper does not mean that your ship has come in ...

... an exception, your being from Tennessee, would be if your old family name is Gore.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
06 Feb 2016
12:24:38am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

".... I would treasure some papers, letters etc from my parents or grandparents to give me an insight into their daily lives. ...."

I totally agree with Vic. I'd say do not dispose of this family treasure unless it is the difference between eating and starving.

I don't know how big your family is but surely here is someone who is or will be curious about heir ancestors. Some years ago I came into possession of a stack of postcards that were from a particular family all sent to a young, and growing young lady who lived in Riverhead, on Long Island. Most were mailed from aunts, uncles and cousins who lived across the Sound in Connecticut. They told of births and deaths marriages and illnesses, school from mid grammar school through colleges, a few romances and visits between the cousins. Some were funny, others sad, a couple that might bring a tear to a reader's eye.
One was from a cousin who had decided to join he war about 1917. He explained that he would feel like a shirker if he didn't enlist. The cards went into the early 1920s and nothing further was there from him. Now they are about 100 years old and four or five generations. There were about ten entires that went into more detail mostly between female cousins. I can't believe that someone now alive wouldn't like to read through them.

As to value, last Monday evening at the Houston stamp club auction I bought a box of miscellaneous catalogs and monographs for precisely $5. There were/are five fifteen year old Michel catalogs, a dozen other pamphlet sized catalogs for several different countries and what had caught my eye a pile of postcards, circa late 30s to the '40s and early 50s. Most the glossy photos from trips to the national parks in the west, but many the older style dimples surfaces. The standard size cards measure 2½" high and the slightly larger type another ½" thick. Only a few had messages but they were almost all to a fellow in Norman, Oklahoma.
My wife has collected and accumulated post cards from childhood and we have albums of the old ones with drawings by someone named "Clapsaddle" and similar contemporaneous artists.
Also boxes and file drawers full of them sorted by view. Her passions the pictures of certain sites through out the years.
So my advice , FamilyArchiver, is to move slowly and if you must sell try to get sections to the hands of people who will appreciate them. Any bulk sale will be giving away your families history.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Feb 2016
07:31:19am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

I like Charlie's PoV; always do.

From an archival or historical perspective, you have treasure, and those that explain the family from any perspective ought to be saved AND annotated. I was a trading partner with Tom Harley for many years, and I have his histroy. He was working on a geneology to explain who was who, but even he, with 80 years in the family, didn't know who many of the writers were. If you do, write it up now for future generations.

outside of a family history (or history itself), there ARE many other things that MIGHT attract buyers; you rightly note post marks, routing cancels, dates, but the trick there is always first figuring out what's what, and THEN putting said what in front of those who value those specific whats. That is tough.

Here we have some Minnesota postal history collectors (probably the largest collection of them in a single online group ever known to mankind) and a decent number of military historians, a Santa Claus Post specialist, a Coast Guardsman, a fool for anything with an M14 on it, a bigger fool for tied seals with auxilliary markings, and..... So, if you have any of those, and they don't tie into your family, AND you at least note it because not all of us will look closely enough, then, voila, you just make $2 or $4 or.... 35c.

David

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
06 Feb 2016
10:03:25am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

For a little history, it's important to note that postcard collecting was a frenzy in the 1900-1930s. This is a period of time without phones, radio, TV, and certainly not the instant communications we have today. As someone said, penny cards were used to send messages before we had phones. Some business areas had three mail deliveries a day, and I have a card mailed from Newark, NJ to Brooklyn, NY with a message saying "I will meet you in your office at 9am tomorrow". It was postmarked Newark in the morning and received in Brooklyn that afternoon.

People were collecting postcards and keeping them in albums. The old albums still surface on eBay and I have many cards that have damage on the address side from being mounted in an album. Consider that there was little in the way of color photos or images back then. People weren't that mobile, and didn't vacation in exotic far away places, so collecting color (ok, colorized) postcards was very exciting.

There were collectors clubs or groups that would exchange cards. They did so several ways, first sharing unused cards (that's why there are tons of clean unused cards on the market today) and sharing them by sending them through the mails. The receiver was to send the sender back a card. So there are a lot of cards mailed far away from the image, and I have a few with the message "Thanks for the card. Here's one for your collection."

I find this period of history pretty interesting! I hope I've described it accurately.

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FamilyArchiver
06 Feb 2016
07:15:04pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

I think I may have stumbled onto the kindest group on the net! Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

I don't want to give any of you the impression I take these items lightly. I feel very fortunate to have it all, but there's only so much I can keep. Only so much I can frame and hang on the wall. I have their furniture, jewelry, sheet music, books, etc., etc. At some point you just have to part with unidentified photographs, letters about the price of wheat or Grandpa's ailments, and all those postcards. So many postcards. Happy

Before organizing any of these papers, I set aside many of personal importance. My son called dibs on the autographed Jack Dempsey card to my dad and his 2x great-grandfather's hunting license. My daughter laid claim to letters from the 1800s and her 3x great-grandmother's embroidered handkerchiefs. I have preserved many other letters, diplomas, portraits, etc. that will all be theirs one day as well.

Amsd- Good advice. Family history has been documented. Sadly, no Minnesota items, but oh so much OR and WA.

cdj1122- It's not that I must sell, but that I see no reason to pass these boxes onto another generation unsorted. There's no meaning in blank cards or potraits of strangers. As for a relative to share these items and the experience, sadly there is not, which is why it has all come to me in one piece. Luckily my kids are interested and involved in helping me sort through the KEEP, SELL and DONATE piles.

ikeyPikey- Thank you! I plan to do just that very soon. Thanks for the template.

BenFranklin1902- I have a few of "your" stamps. May I PM you w/pix?

sheepshanks- I'm happy to post here before selling elsewhere. Thanks for all your input.


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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
06 Feb 2016
07:49:24pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Quote:

"BenFranklin1902- I have a few of "your" stamps. May I PM you w/pix?"



Sure!

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FamilyArchiver
06 Feb 2016
08:11:54pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Great, thanks BenFranklin1902. I just grabbed 6 w/BF stamps from a pack of WA local interest, because I've only sorted these by view and have never even looked at the other sides until now. There's a postage due, World Fair cancel, etc.

Should these be of any interest, I will be forever paralyzed by doubt, and forced to die surrounded by my postcard collection. Happy

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
07 Feb 2016
07:40:44am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

They could be interesting! Send me scans and I'll let you know what you have.

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FamilyArchiver
07 Feb 2016
09:40:09am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

I emailed you a low res pic. Let me know if it didn't come through. (And thanks again!)

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larsdog
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08 Feb 2016
12:34:46am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

I think the advice given thus far is good, but I would like to add a "second" to the advice of visiting a local show with a few representative items just to get a feel for what you have and what the process is like. If the show is local it would only take an hour or two of your time and might help you learn what types of items need to be sold in bulk and which may need a little more scrutiny.

Good luck!

Lars

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FamilyArchiver
08 Feb 2016
07:09:12am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Thanks, Lars! I'll look for one.

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FamilyArchiver
18 Feb 2016
08:14:52pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I think I've found a buyer for many of my RPPCs. Most are similar to these, the majority never mailed. Image Not Found

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keesindy
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18 Feb 2016
10:48:02pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

FA, I trust you've researched your RPPCs and understand that those where the location of the view is known can be worth quite a bit of money because of their scarcity. The better RPPCs can bring $50-100 and sometimes a few hundred dollars. If the location is unknown or the photographed individuals unnamed, then, they'll be worth far less. I don't collect these, but have several friends who do and I've scanned a few thousand of the RPPCs from their collections to share with the public on Flickr.

According to my friends, the market hasn't seen as much new material coming up for sale in the past two years and bidding has slowed. I suppose it's just the natural ebb and flow of the market. Anyway, there are always people looking for individual RPPCs or collections to break up and resell.

Good luck to you!

Tom

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FamilyArchiver
19 Feb 2016
08:04:07am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Thank you so much, Tom. I was thrilled with the $125 offer, but you're not the only person to respond as you have. I'm so grateful to have found this community.

I'm glad I didn't accept his offer yet. Thank you, Tom!


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keesindy
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19 Feb 2016
07:51:12pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

FA, A good friend of mine collects Indiana RPPCs, but might be interested in a wider range or RPPC postcards. I can check with her if you like. She's passionate about RPPCs and is very knowledgeable. She could be very helpful even if she decides she's not interested in the postcards.

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FamilyArchiver
19 Feb 2016
11:20:01pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

I would REALLY appreciate that. Thanks!

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Feb 2016
03:37:35am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Did anyone define the "RPPC" abbreviation, or is it an acronym ? "Arpeecees" ???

Real Photo Post Card,

I'll have to send it over to Kelly for her list.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
20 Feb 2016
06:56:27am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

charlie,

thanks so much... i looked far and wide for a definition of the acronym, and I only had to wait. I'd never seen the acronym before

David

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
20 Feb 2016
09:50:41am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

I found some interesting RPPCs, go to the eBay postcard section and do the search "Seattle, 1909" and literally thousands of entries will come up for the Worlds Fair there that year. They had a photo booth set up where people could get their pictures taken, which must've been a rare treat in those times. One of the settings was sitting in a open top phaeton car... I've seen dozens of photos of that car! And it seems people didn't smile for photos back then.

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FamilyArchiver
15 Mar 2016
05:43:59pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

After a false start on ebay, (I think my starting price was too high), I've put up 2 more postcards. Wish me luck!

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malcolm197
15 Mar 2016
10:02:01pm
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Alicia

The problem with esoteric material like yours is not making the sale, but identifying the potential buyers. A bit of horizontal thinking may be necessary.

There are not only postmark, stamp and postcard collectors to consider - but specialist collectors of all kind. For example your truck photograph might be of interest to a road transport "nut" who cares not that it is a postcard, but it is a picture of an old truck.He might also collect hauliers invoices,manufacturers name badges from vehicles and old bus timetables, for example. You are unlikely to reach him ( or rarely her ) through a postcard site or auction.

After a lifetime in buses, I have an interest in ( but do not collect) such bus based material - but I do know of people who do.

There are lots of UK bus photographs on flickr - and many are available for sale - and I have no doubt there are many US photo sites on any subject you can mention that may be worth exploring.

I can only extrapolate your US truck photo from UK bus items, but there are many,many more modern than historical bus photos available here.

Also there are collectors of advertising ephemera.

There is a market for everything, and the reason why dealers make more money than us lesser mortals is that THEY know where the markets are.

As has been stated several times above to maximise your revenue you need to take time, and that depends on how much you have and how you price it out. At least with the internet the world is your oyster and the keyboard can do the travelling for you.

Good luck with it !

Malcolm

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FamilyArchiver
16 Mar 2016
08:56:12am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Malcolm-

You describe my situation perfectly. The dilemma being determining the best buyers for each view. Given the categories of the (now approaching 1000) postcards, this means identifying approximately 30 distinct markets.

This is why I felt ebay was the best way to go. By titling each card with specifics, various collectors could pull them up easily.

It was either this or quit my job, move into a tent with wifi and dedicate the next year to de-postcarding. Haha!

Thank you for your input. I appreciate everyone here so much!

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dani20
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16 Mar 2016
10:35:32am
re: Confused re: Values- Postcards vs. Postmark vs. Stamps

Dear All,
Much good information-but the professional among us has not yet spoken. Roy, any thoughts to share?
Best,
Dan

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