Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Picture this - the ONLY place in my Florida home that is dark enough to use my UV light is the walk-in closet. There isn't an outlet in there so I have to run an extension cord across the floor. (and no jokes about the two electricians living in the house that needs electrical work haha). Then the floor of that closet is where the schnauzers have their basket full of toys. So every time I try to go in there and close the door, the dogs think it is time to play and they keep pushing the door open and letting the light in. Then they proceed to scatter all the stamps around.
Are you laughing yet? It's like the three stooges tagging show. I've got to find a better way to check tagging! I don't know if one of those light boxes would work - does anyone have one? Do you like it? All ideas appreciated!
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You will have to do it in the middle of the night.
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I have a black box that I put the stamps in to check with the light. If that doesn't work I go behind the curtain. The wizard says it's okay! Seriously, lock the door to see the tag or put the toys out. Or the garage is a good dark place, and it has electricity.
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The garage would be a GREAT idea, but ours has windows. I'll start shopping for a light box. I could probably build one myself - wire up the switches and all. Hmmmmm I'm thinking (ouch that hurts!) haha.
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First off, congrats for living in sunny Florida!
Second, my guess is that those stamps are untagged. 
mine usually show up with the lights on. Then again, my stamp room is in the basement.
I have a great vision of the dogs wanting to play. Hilarious!
Mark
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I'm not sure the wattage of your UV light. But if is plug-in, it's probably putting out close to 4 watts if not more, which should be more than sufficient without having to turn off all the lights.
But if you are still having trouble, try the simple cardboard box approach first, before you go out and buy a lightbox, to convince yourself that's the route you want to go.
A simple quick check is to get a cardboard box and cut out two adjacent sides: one open end for setting on the desktop, and the other open end for sticking in your UV lamp. The box should cast more than enough shadow for you to see the tagging. So set the stamps you want to check on your table, put the box over it with one open end down, and stick the UV lamp into the remaining open end.
My room is illuminated by a 26W fluorescent bulb and my desktop by 2x15W fluorescent bulbs. I don't use the box method, because my table and body cast enough of a shadow for me to simply turn to the side and check any stamps in the table shadow (or just underneath my tabletop if necessary).
The only time I've had to turn off all the lights is with one of those small portable battery operated lamps, which have very low output intensity.
So consider giving the cardboard box a try.
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Also, just FYI, if you use stamp mounts (Showgard, Prinz, Hawid, Scott, etc.) the UV light will probably not show you the tagging with the stamp in the mount. The plastic has a UV shield. You'll have to remove the stamp from the mount. This is especially true of battery powered UV lamps.
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Having spent some time trying to read different displays out-of-doors, in full desert sun light, I have a lot of nice things to say about draping a thick towel over your head (and workspace).
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Michael##### has a very good point -- almost all mounts and clear stockbook/stockpage strips will absorb the UV to the point that you will not be able to generate visible photoluminescence. You have to remove them in order to check for tagging. This will be true even if you use the higher intensity UV lamps.
There are exceptions. The Supersafe (and equivalent) mint sheet pages have clear PolyPro film -- which IS transparent enough to UV light that you can study the photoluminescence without removing the stamp. I have about 10 of these albums, of which about 1/2 are dedicated to US plate blocks, mint sheets, and coils so that I can instantly compare tagging and hi-brite paper varieties without having to remove the stamps.
The only drawback is that the plate blocks and PNC5s will move around slightly if you don't turn the pages carefully (takes some practice). But it's really nice to be able to see the different tagging patterns/anomalies on the full panes of stamps.
Of course, if you hinge your stamps instead of using stamp mounts, this is not a problem. 
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THANKS for the ideas! Lots of great suggestions - love the towel over the head - dogs would think I was playing "peekaboo" though. Haha.
My stamp desk is right in front of a north facing sliding glass door, so I have a tremendous amount of very bright albeit indirect Florida sunshine. Tagging in the evening is probably the best bet. Love the cardboard box suggestion! Clever!
Mounts aren't a problem - My collection is on Hagnar's and varios and I always remove the stamp to tag. I'm usually doing several at once, too.
My light is a plug-in with two lamps of different frequencies. I used to have two small handheld units, but they just weren't as effective. While you're right that some issues are easy to pick out with minimal UV, those trans coils have some "mottled" tag varieties that are subtle and tougher to differentiate. Check out the 10c Canal Boat trans coil which has three types of tagging for example. The block tag is super obvious but the other two a bit tougher.
There is a darker corner under one section of my desk that has an outlet - perhaps using the box idea there, combined with saving tagging for nighttime might be a great solution!
Isn't it great having lots of great minds to put together to come up with ideas? Now that's Stamporama at its best.
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I have a couple of questions, if I may. For me, tagging is a new concept in flyspecking. I've tried a couple of times on a few stamps I knew should have tagging. Does a regular black light bulb not work? If not could anyone recommend a moderately priced light that will work? Nothing fancy, just dependable.
Thanks,
WB
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The regular consumer grade black light bulb normally will not work because most are centered in the long wavelength range. In most cases, you will make the entire stamp paper glow, and what little short wavelength tail you might have to produce tagging luminescence will be masked by the glow of the paper. On those black lights, your shoelaces, jeans, and certain fabrics will glow.
The key, if you want to do studying of tagging (rather just trying to detect tagging) is having a good filter, and that's a good part of the price if you buy the higher end UV dual wavelength lamps.
I mentioned this privately to someone else, but if you want to actually STUDY (as opposed to just detecting) tagging, I would avoid the philatelic UV lamps unless you live deep underground in a cave.
If you only want to detect tagging on US stamps, the philatelic short wavelength UV lamps will do the job (barely). It doesn't have to be philatelic grade -- you basically need a filtered short-wavelength UV lamp. By short wavelength, I mean something centered ~254nm, rather than the long wavelength (~365nm) common on most black light. This will detect tagging on 99.9% of US stamps. Most consumer grade short-wavelength UV lamps are dual-wavelength because the short-wavelength components are the bulk of the material costs. The philatelic ones will run $30+; these would be considered low end, but enough to detect tagging in a low light environment.
A good source of good quality dual wavelength UV lamps is suppliers for rock collectors. These will run in the ~$100 range and up.
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Thank you,
I can turn the man cave into just that, "a cave", so invasive light sources wouldn't be a problem.
I think as far as I'd care to go at this point, would be the ability to detect the different types of tagging. I know it was mentioned above that there can be multiple types within a given issue. Would that ability fall under your definition of "study" and require one of the better lights?
I appreciate the input,
WB
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Yes, if you want to detect different varieties of tagging within the same issue, I would strongly advise getting a better light if you can afford it. It will make life easier for you and your eyes. Or else get used to studying it in total darkness.
I don't regularly use the portable battery-powered philatelic units as I don't own that type, so someone else will have to chime in on how to best use those at home. I believe Theresa has already expressed her difficulties, but perhaps she can offer useful pointers in case you have to use them.
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Okay, thank you very much for your help.
WB
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There is an excellent book on tagging and luminescence called "stamps that glow". I was going to loan you my copy but I can't find the darn thing! I must have loaned it out or lost it in the move.
I just found a used copy on Amazon. I should have it within 10 days or so - it isn't being shipped from Amazon, so it will take a bit longer.
Anyways, I can loan it to you once I have it. It is written by Wayne Youngblood. I could enclose it in that box of stamps I promised you and the grandkids. Let me know if you're interested.
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Very interested and very grateful, thank you!!
Sounds like a great tool, I'll be sure and return it in a timely manner.
WB
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After you've read it, anyone else who wants to read it could post their name here and you could forward it to them.
So -- Anyone interested?
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"After you've read it, anyone else who wants to read it could post their name here and you could forward it to them.
So -- Anyone interested? "
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That's a yes then! Okie dokie. WB, please forward it to Ted when you're done?
Ted - please private message WB your address when you have a moment.
This book is going to really travel!
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Terri,
We use our laundry room as it has no windows. We do have to run an extension cord, but it is very dark when we close the door a little. We use the top of the dryer.
I agree tagging can be a real pain, but sometimes you find a variety that is worth more!! We have even found some RED tagging on some airmails that don't have a catalog value.
Bob
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I can do that, look forward to learning something new!
Just a thought, have each of us sign it in the back with name and location and you'll have a record of where's been.
WB
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Hi Terri,
I have a copy of that book in my library but haven't used it much. I will be getting some use from it in the near future because my local club will have a long wave and short wave lamp coming up for auction and I hope to get a deal on them.
As far as everyone signing you book as it makes the rounds maybe they can put a picture of themselves with the book in their stamp rooms.
While vacationing in Myrtle Beach this past summer my wife and I took a trip to Charleston. We didn't take our grand daughters so they wanted me to take one of their stuffed animals we won at the amusement park. I have pictures of that stuffed dolphin with the bus driver, carriage driver, boat captain and different dealers in the market. Kinda fun.
Vince
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I do a lot of work with tagging as I have put together a US collection with all the different varieties. I use the handheld one, not dual wave, and have not had to do it in a darkened room except for a few cases. The one thing that does make a big difference is you have to keep using fresh batteries. The out put seems to double when I put in fresh batteries. One other thing I noticed is that the image sensor from my USB microscope seems to pick up the phosphorescence better than my eyes.
This image was taken in a fully lit room with the uv lamp aimed at the stamp.
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"We have even found some RED tagging on some airmails that don't have a catalog value."
The Scott US Specialized does not tell you what color to expect. But the red-orange luminescence is the normal color for the early tagged airmails. After that era, the same green luminescence taggant found on regular postage was used on the airmail stamps.
Also, not all luminescence on regular postage is green. There are a few issues that have whitish photoluminescence, such as the 20c birds & flowers setenants.
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"One other thing I noticed is that the image sensor from my USB microscope seems to pick up the phosphorescence better than my eyes."
Yes, they are much more advanced now, and are better at picking up low intensities than the human eye. The modern scanners and digital microscopes have improved dramatically.
Nice pic, Sean!
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I had similar problems and sought out darker and darker locations, but it turned out I just didn't have the UV light close enough to the stamp. Remember, your aren't using the lamp to see some secret marking appear from afar, you are using the lamp to "activate" the tagging agent. Get the lamp a lot closer to the stamp, and you may be amazed. Be sure to NEVER shine the light toward you. Looking into a UV light is about as wise as viewing a solar eclipse with an unprotected eye.
Happy hunting!
Lars
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I've been doing some tagging work on trans coils and other issues and I've developed a problem.
Picture this - the ONLY place in my Florida home that is dark enough to use my UV light is the walk-in closet. There isn't an outlet in there so I have to run an extension cord across the floor. (and no jokes about the two electricians living in the house that needs electrical work haha). Then the floor of that closet is where the schnauzers have their basket full of toys. So every time I try to go in there and close the door, the dogs think it is time to play and they keep pushing the door open and letting the light in. Then they proceed to scatter all the stamps around.
Are you laughing yet? It's like the three stooges tagging show. I've got to find a better way to check tagging! I don't know if one of those light boxes would work - does anyone have one? Do you like it? All ideas appreciated!
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10:21:15pm
re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
You will have to do it in the middle of the night.
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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439
27 Jan 2016
10:25:23pm
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
I have a black box that I put the stamps in to check with the light. If that doesn't work I go behind the curtain. The wizard says it's okay! Seriously, lock the door to see the tag or put the toys out. Or the garage is a good dark place, and it has electricity.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
The garage would be a GREAT idea, but ours has windows. I'll start shopping for a light box. I could probably build one myself - wire up the switches and all. Hmmmmm I'm thinking (ouch that hurts!) haha.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
First off, congrats for living in sunny Florida!
Second, my guess is that those stamps are untagged. mine usually show up with the lights on. Then again, my stamp room is in the basement.
I have a great vision of the dogs wanting to play. Hilarious!
Mark
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
I'm not sure the wattage of your UV light. But if is plug-in, it's probably putting out close to 4 watts if not more, which should be more than sufficient without having to turn off all the lights.
But if you are still having trouble, try the simple cardboard box approach first, before you go out and buy a lightbox, to convince yourself that's the route you want to go.
A simple quick check is to get a cardboard box and cut out two adjacent sides: one open end for setting on the desktop, and the other open end for sticking in your UV lamp. The box should cast more than enough shadow for you to see the tagging. So set the stamps you want to check on your table, put the box over it with one open end down, and stick the UV lamp into the remaining open end.
My room is illuminated by a 26W fluorescent bulb and my desktop by 2x15W fluorescent bulbs. I don't use the box method, because my table and body cast enough of a shadow for me to simply turn to the side and check any stamps in the table shadow (or just underneath my tabletop if necessary).
The only time I've had to turn off all the lights is with one of those small portable battery operated lamps, which have very low output intensity.
So consider giving the cardboard box a try.
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01:06:14am
re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Also, just FYI, if you use stamp mounts (Showgard, Prinz, Hawid, Scott, etc.) the UV light will probably not show you the tagging with the stamp in the mount. The plastic has a UV shield. You'll have to remove the stamp from the mount. This is especially true of battery powered UV lamps.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Having spent some time trying to read different displays out-of-doors, in full desert sun light, I have a lot of nice things to say about draping a thick towel over your head (and workspace).
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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this post
re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Michael##### has a very good point -- almost all mounts and clear stockbook/stockpage strips will absorb the UV to the point that you will not be able to generate visible photoluminescence. You have to remove them in order to check for tagging. This will be true even if you use the higher intensity UV lamps.
There are exceptions. The Supersafe (and equivalent) mint sheet pages have clear PolyPro film -- which IS transparent enough to UV light that you can study the photoluminescence without removing the stamp. I have about 10 of these albums, of which about 1/2 are dedicated to US plate blocks, mint sheets, and coils so that I can instantly compare tagging and hi-brite paper varieties without having to remove the stamps.
The only drawback is that the plate blocks and PNC5s will move around slightly if you don't turn the pages carefully (takes some practice). But it's really nice to be able to see the different tagging patterns/anomalies on the full panes of stamps.
Of course, if you hinge your stamps instead of using stamp mounts, this is not a problem.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
THANKS for the ideas! Lots of great suggestions - love the towel over the head - dogs would think I was playing "peekaboo" though. Haha.
My stamp desk is right in front of a north facing sliding glass door, so I have a tremendous amount of very bright albeit indirect Florida sunshine. Tagging in the evening is probably the best bet. Love the cardboard box suggestion! Clever!
Mounts aren't a problem - My collection is on Hagnar's and varios and I always remove the stamp to tag. I'm usually doing several at once, too.
My light is a plug-in with two lamps of different frequencies. I used to have two small handheld units, but they just weren't as effective. While you're right that some issues are easy to pick out with minimal UV, those trans coils have some "mottled" tag varieties that are subtle and tougher to differentiate. Check out the 10c Canal Boat trans coil which has three types of tagging for example. The block tag is super obvious but the other two a bit tougher.
There is a darker corner under one section of my desk that has an outlet - perhaps using the box idea there, combined with saving tagging for nighttime might be a great solution!
Isn't it great having lots of great minds to put together to come up with ideas? Now that's Stamporama at its best.
Login to Like
this post
re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
I have a couple of questions, if I may. For me, tagging is a new concept in flyspecking. I've tried a couple of times on a few stamps I knew should have tagging. Does a regular black light bulb not work? If not could anyone recommend a moderately priced light that will work? Nothing fancy, just dependable.
Thanks,
WB
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
The regular consumer grade black light bulb normally will not work because most are centered in the long wavelength range. In most cases, you will make the entire stamp paper glow, and what little short wavelength tail you might have to produce tagging luminescence will be masked by the glow of the paper. On those black lights, your shoelaces, jeans, and certain fabrics will glow.
The key, if you want to do studying of tagging (rather just trying to detect tagging) is having a good filter, and that's a good part of the price if you buy the higher end UV dual wavelength lamps.
I mentioned this privately to someone else, but if you want to actually STUDY (as opposed to just detecting) tagging, I would avoid the philatelic UV lamps unless you live deep underground in a cave.
If you only want to detect tagging on US stamps, the philatelic short wavelength UV lamps will do the job (barely). It doesn't have to be philatelic grade -- you basically need a filtered short-wavelength UV lamp. By short wavelength, I mean something centered ~254nm, rather than the long wavelength (~365nm) common on most black light. This will detect tagging on 99.9% of US stamps. Most consumer grade short-wavelength UV lamps are dual-wavelength because the short-wavelength components are the bulk of the material costs. The philatelic ones will run $30+; these would be considered low end, but enough to detect tagging in a low light environment.
A good source of good quality dual wavelength UV lamps is suppliers for rock collectors. These will run in the ~$100 range and up.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Thank you,
I can turn the man cave into just that, "a cave", so invasive light sources wouldn't be a problem.
I think as far as I'd care to go at this point, would be the ability to detect the different types of tagging. I know it was mentioned above that there can be multiple types within a given issue. Would that ability fall under your definition of "study" and require one of the better lights?
I appreciate the input,
WB
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Yes, if you want to detect different varieties of tagging within the same issue, I would strongly advise getting a better light if you can afford it. It will make life easier for you and your eyes. Or else get used to studying it in total darkness.
I don't regularly use the portable battery-powered philatelic units as I don't own that type, so someone else will have to chime in on how to best use those at home. I believe Theresa has already expressed her difficulties, but perhaps she can offer useful pointers in case you have to use them.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Okay, thank you very much for your help.
WB
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
There is an excellent book on tagging and luminescence called "stamps that glow". I was going to loan you my copy but I can't find the darn thing! I must have loaned it out or lost it in the move.
I just found a used copy on Amazon. I should have it within 10 days or so - it isn't being shipped from Amazon, so it will take a bit longer.
Anyways, I can loan it to you once I have it. It is written by Wayne Youngblood. I could enclose it in that box of stamps I promised you and the grandkids. Let me know if you're interested.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Very interested and very grateful, thank you!!
Sounds like a great tool, I'll be sure and return it in a timely manner.
WB
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
After you've read it, anyone else who wants to read it could post their name here and you could forward it to them.
So -- Anyone interested?
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
"After you've read it, anyone else who wants to read it could post their name here and you could forward it to them.
So -- Anyone interested? "
Login to Like
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
That's a yes then! Okie dokie. WB, please forward it to Ted when you're done?
Ted - please private message WB your address when you have a moment.
This book is going to really travel!
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03:36:59pm
re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Terri,
We use our laundry room as it has no windows. We do have to run an extension cord, but it is very dark when we close the door a little. We use the top of the dryer.
I agree tagging can be a real pain, but sometimes you find a variety that is worth more!! We have even found some RED tagging on some airmails that don't have a catalog value.
Bob
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
I can do that, look forward to learning something new!
Just a thought, have each of us sign it in the back with name and location and you'll have a record of where's been.
WB
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
Hi Terri,
I have a copy of that book in my library but haven't used it much. I will be getting some use from it in the near future because my local club will have a long wave and short wave lamp coming up for auction and I hope to get a deal on them.
As far as everyone signing you book as it makes the rounds maybe they can put a picture of themselves with the book in their stamp rooms.
While vacationing in Myrtle Beach this past summer my wife and I took a trip to Charleston. We didn't take our grand daughters so they wanted me to take one of their stuffed animals we won at the amusement park. I have pictures of that stuffed dolphin with the bus driver, carriage driver, boat captain and different dealers in the market. Kinda fun.
Vince
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
I do a lot of work with tagging as I have put together a US collection with all the different varieties. I use the handheld one, not dual wave, and have not had to do it in a darkened room except for a few cases. The one thing that does make a big difference is you have to keep using fresh batteries. The out put seems to double when I put in fresh batteries. One other thing I noticed is that the image sensor from my USB microscope seems to pick up the phosphorescence better than my eyes.
This image was taken in a fully lit room with the uv lamp aimed at the stamp.
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
"We have even found some RED tagging on some airmails that don't have a catalog value."
The Scott US Specialized does not tell you what color to expect. But the red-orange luminescence is the normal color for the early tagged airmails. After that era, the same green luminescence taggant found on regular postage was used on the airmail stamps.
Also, not all luminescence on regular postage is green. There are a few issues that have whitish photoluminescence, such as the 20c birds & flowers setenants.
Login to Like
this post
re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
"One other thing I noticed is that the image sensor from my USB microscope seems to pick up the phosphorescence better than my eyes."
Yes, they are much more advanced now, and are better at picking up low intensities than the human eye. The modern scanners and digital microscopes have improved dramatically.
Nice pic, Sean!
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re: Terri's Tagging Troubles
I had similar problems and sought out darker and darker locations, but it turned out I just didn't have the UV light close enough to the stamp. Remember, your aren't using the lamp to see some secret marking appear from afar, you are using the lamp to "activate" the tagging agent. Get the lamp a lot closer to the stamp, and you may be amazed. Be sure to NEVER shine the light toward you. Looking into a UV light is about as wise as viewing a solar eclipse with an unprotected eye.
Happy hunting!
Lars
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