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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

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Stampme
22 Jan 2016
08:54:04pm
Is there really anything I can say about this abomination other than what itself shrieks in pantomime about itself!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Apr-15-1865-Envelope-With-Lincoln-Mourning-Modern-Add-on-Cachet-A043-/291666226376?hash=item43e8a96cc8:g:U9EAAOSwLnlWmEyr

Bruce








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vinman
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22 Jan 2016
09:10:26pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

What, wouldn't you be proud to hang that on your office wall?Crying
Wait, is this April 1st? just a joke? An Old Point Comfort,VA cover destroyed. If you want to make your head hurt just look at his other items, lots of rare covers and stamps.

Vince

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Snick1946
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22 Jan 2016
09:55:26pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

This Ebay seller offer mostly stamp 'reproductions'. Most of them awful. He seems to have a nice niche market, not sure how.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
23 Jan 2016
10:15:34am

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re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

So I can take $1 covers, run them through my ink jet and they become instant $25 collectibles?? I think I found a new job!

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lisagrant87
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23 Jan 2016
10:35:48am
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

Ok, I have to admit my total lack of knowledge about this. Is this a total fake? Which parts did the seller print himself? How do you all know?

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cocollectibles
23 Jan 2016
11:06:40am
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

Quote:

"He seems to have a nice niche market, not sure how."



Obviously, some people find these kind of reproductions and facsimile covers attractive and collectible, or he would be out of business soon (market dictates, after all). So although *I* may not buy something like this, and cringe to think original stamp material is altered to make a sale, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this, especially since he's upfront and honest about the alteration.

This kind of thing reminds me of coin sellers who pierce a rather common but attractive coin to make it a necklace. Not what I would do or buy, but evidently some people like this sort of thing.

Peter
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"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
Anglophile
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RPSL, APS, EPA; US, GB, Ireland, British Europe, Italy, Mauritius Classics
23 Jan 2016
12:29:21pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

Quote:

"Ok, I have to admit my total lack of knowledge about this. Is this a total fake? Which parts did the seller print himself? How do you all know?"



The prior posts appear to rely upon the seller's item description including the title line and the detailed description. These say that the cachet in the upper left corner was applied after the cover was mailed, which happened to be the date of Lincoln's death, and otherwise the cover, stamp and markings are genuine. Note that the seller does not admit to applying the cachet himself. He simply says it is a modern addition. It could have been applied in 1920, 1950, or 2016, we do not know. Close inspection of the edges of the cachet appear to show tiny ink dots that would be consistent with bleed from ink jet printing, but again, this is speculative. It could have been printed offset based on a halftone. However, the number of genuine covers from April 15, 1865 must be small, so this likely was a one-off project.
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Steve
23 Jan 2016
01:15:26pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

How do we know the letter was posted in 1865? The postmark only has the day and month, not the year. The year sometimes appeared on the reverse receiver cancel, but that is not shown here. Am I missing something?

-Steve

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Tom in Exton, PA
23 Jan 2016
01:38:32pm

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re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

From the eBay listing, hit the link to see the seller's other offerings. He has a ton of covers from all eras with advertising and other cachets, all the same deal... applied decades after postmarked. Stuff all the way through the 1960s, including some WWII patriotics and firearm advertising.

It's okay that the seller reveals they are fakes, but once in the hands of new buyers or those after them, they may be passed off as real. Intentionally or unintentionally by people who got them as part of a collection or estate.

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Snick1946
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23 Jan 2016
01:46:20pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

I actually bought a set of what he listed as reproductions of the Washington-Franklin blue papers. They were pitiful- wrong colors and size. Sent them back and got a refund although he wasn't happy.

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vinman
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23 Jan 2016
02:00:52pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

Steve,
Your not missing anything.
I took a look at Richard Frajola's site and checked his permanent census and that cds was used between 1862 and 1866 There is nothing on the cover to show the year.

Vince

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Snick1946
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23 Jan 2016
02:21:52pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

Not an expert, but to me it looks like a genuine cover with the cachet and the dated cancel added on. Not real sure about the address either.

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vinman
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23 Jan 2016
02:39:55pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

The only thing that looks like it don't belong on that cover is the addition of the cachet. Looks like an inkjet printed it. The stamp and cancel look genuine and tied, the cds looks good also. I don't know about the address. I will try Google it.

Vince

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
23 Jan 2016
03:02:50pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

he states it's 1864. CDS in period seldom had the year on them, so that's normal.

Old Point Comfort was the site of Fortress Monroe, and a spit of land and fortifications that remained in Union hands throughout the war.

It is likely the sender was military, but one would need to look at records to see NH regiments (as a starting point).

as others state, he is upfront about his alteration of the cover. I would love to see if he gets his asking price; he wouldn't likely if it remained unaltered in the absence of something that distinguished it more (like an 1865 date, which would make it sent on Lincoln's assassination)

and, like Peter said, we wouldn't do that, but he can

David

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copy55555
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23 Jan 2016
03:09:50pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

I looked at several of his other cover offerings. Most are #10 unaddressed high quality envelopes - the only thing that the seller states is genuine is the postage stamp. The envelopes are new, the cachet is new (inkjet I guess) and the postmark is new (also inkjet.) He guarantees that the common US postage stamp is vintage and genuine forever.


Plus there appear to be a few covers with "facsimile" stamps which would then be completely bogus. On the cover we are discussing, I would guess that the postmark is part of the cachet. Only my opinion, of course.

Tad

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
23 Jan 2016
09:42:53pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

Peter said:

Quote:

"This kind of thing reminds me of coin sellers who pierce a rather common but attractive coin to make it a necklace. Not what I would do or buy, but evidently some people like this sort of thing."



...or like putting an inverted Jenny (Scott #C3a) into a locket?
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Stampme
24 Jan 2016
09:02:28am
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

After the discussion, I realized I had commented on this seller once before showing one of his "classic" covers with fake stamps of the 20th Century.

When he fakes covers like that or alters old covers with modern day cachets, I believe he is obligated by eBay rules to have the word printed on the back: Reproduction or facsimile. I don't think he follows that regulation.

Bruce


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Snick1946
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24 Jan 2016
10:20:47am
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

He doesn't do that on the reproductions he sells. The ones I got had nothing on the back, even though I think the listing said they would be supplied with that. He's not alone in that, I'd venture that most of the sellers of this stuff don't bother to mark their wares.

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Stampme
24 Jan 2016
05:23:33pm
re: Oh-The-Humanity!!!!!!

That is what really irks me about these people. Down the road these spurious offerings will be sold as genuine.

Bruce

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