Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
my 2nd question is: First starting out is it ok to go with an older version to get started? The new ones are VERY expensive and i would need one for every country
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Hi Bill,
You can definitely find an older version of the catalogue in decent condition. And you're right: they are great tools for getting yourself organized. Scott will not necessarily publish listings for every variety of stamp; but all of the main variations are there. To get even more into the weeds, you would need a specialized catalogue for each country - for example, Unitrade for Canada.
Instead of buying, first check to see if your local library has a set on their shelves somewhere. That's what I rely on to keep current. At $90 per volume new, I'd rather blow my $540 total on new stamps!
Good luck in your search!
Andrew
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thanks for the info. I did purchase a 1967 scott national album i havent had much time to play with that is pretty informative and actually has quite a few stamps in it already
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" At $90 per volume new"
The 2015 catalogs were $120.00 per volume.
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"The 2015 catalogs were $120.00 per volume."
D'oh!!!!!So that would be $720 worth of stamps that we could buy... See what I did there? I just increased my stamp budget!
Andrejs
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12:47:02pm
" ... "The 2015 catalogs were $120.00 per volume." ..."
I thought that $90 was a bargain.
I haven't bought a New Scott in so many years, and the last used sit was easily fifteen years ago at $5.00 per volume.
I did buy a S. Gibbons specialized Volume 4 about three tears ago and am so disappointed in its format, and numerous errors and omissions I'll probably never do that again.
Bill, I have found that, at almost all midsized to major stamp shows, at least one dealer will have a pile of slightly out-of-date catalogs priced reasonably. I also learned years ago that during the last hour or so when a few dealers start to pack up to go home, a dealer who has lugged a sled full of catalogs around, that did not sell, will usually be amenable to a cash offer, It seems that $25 in the hand will pay for a meal on the long drive home far better that $100.00 of heavy books in the trunk.
That is how I accumulated my set of Billig's Handbooks and a decent group of specialist books.
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IF your local library has the catalogs you might ask the librarian about buying the ones they have when they replace them with newer versions, I picked up a complete 7 volume set
for $35.00, never hurts to ask
Also ebay might be another avenue
Good Luck.......Bill
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Hello,
I go to the library and ask for the most recent edtions.Sometimes I have to reserve the volumes or work with some and get the others later in the month. I belong to a big system who will move the book closer to me once I reseve the catalog.
If you are keeping track of your duplicates I include what year I used, in pencil on the stock sheet or sheets I wrote the scott numbers on. When I get a newer version the scott number did not change, only the value(maybe).
Another souce is an advanced collecter in your local club. These advancd collecters with big collections will buy the catalog more often, so thats where I get my used catalogs from!
Good Luck!
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I was speaking to a stamp dealer wednesday and he strongly suggested that collectors take a group of stamps that need cataloging to the library..in other words..why would anyone who is not in the stamp business spend $500 or so for catalogs ?..spend it on stamps instead ! I have a 2012 set that someone probably paid 20 dollars (or got them free) from a library..i paid $175.00 for them on the internet in 2013 ..i am not planning on making that kind of an outlay for catalogs again any time soon !
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My dad did that all the time! At least three times a week he would head over to the local library with a mini stock book of stamps he wanted to take a peak at and would spend hours there. I do that too, on occasion. It's a great way to spend a morning or afternoon; and when you get home, you're raring to go on organizing the collection.
By the way, a stamp dealer would tell you to spend money on stamps instead of catalogues. It was good advice, but not completely altruistic... 
Andrew
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10:31:48am
" .... By the way, a stamp dealer would tell you to spend money on stamps instead of catalogues. It was good advice, but not completely altruistic... ...."
I'd say the same and that is completely altruistic.
Come to think of it I do believe I have said, or written, that a dozen times.
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We take everything he says with a grain of salt...but some friends have been suggesting the library route for years..and now the price of scott paper is starting to sting ! Of course if i stick strictly to my cover collecting..i could purchase a lot of covers for the cost of a set of scott catalogs !
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12:25:34pm
For most collectors' purposes, a very recent set of Scott's is unnecessary. Complete sets a few years old will do just as well. Browsing eBay's completed listings for complete sets of Scotts catalogues shows many sets in the 2010-2012 years selling for $50-70.
A little patience and watching should provide the opportunity to grab one of these. That's an investment in information that I think is well worth it.
Roy
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Here's an update on the price of Scott catalogs. I did not buy the 2016 set, but I have found that it sold for $125.00 each volume. That's another $30.00 to add onto the total cost. I dread to see what the 2017 edition will cost, and I absolutely don't want to know what 2018 will cost if they break it down into a bunch of small regional volumes.
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I will continue to buy the catalog pages of the countries I collect.
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I agree that it is better to spend your money on stamps than on new catalogs every year. I buy a new Scott Classic World specialized every three years. It has all stamps issued for the world thru 1940. These are the stamps that are most likely to have significant value subject to occasional change. In addition I buy a couple year old full set of Scott's standard catalogs every five years. This seems to work best for me. If you really need a new catalog value for a stamp or set it is easily gotten by asking for help on chat boards.
If one is collecting the world they surely need a complete set of older standard catalogs at least. Sets that are ten years old or so are often given away by other collectors for the cost of shipping. On the other hand they can be found on Ebby quite cheaply but shipping is always a big consideration so it is usually best to buy a complete set from the same person to keep shipping costs down.
There is a free online catalog that can be very useful, it can be found here: Stamp World Catalog
It cannot replace hard copy catalogs but prices are basically up to date.
Stanley Gibbons also has a free online catalog, here: Gibbons Online Catalog
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-11-23 21:26:39)
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I agree with Mitch. Unless you are obsessed by "the Value" of your collection - an up-to-date catalogue is an expensive luxury.
The fact is that very few catalogues satisfy the needs of collectors. A simplified catalogue is often too simplistic even for general all the world collectors like me whereas specialised catalogues are never specialised enough for real specialists. There are some exceptions -the Deegam catalogue for GB Machin stamps is a "proper" specialised cataloge - it is almost a case of "too much information"
I don't know anything about Scotts but as a general all-world collector ( beyond the simplified ) the Gibbons Specialised catalogues provide a "road-map", but even then I find that specialised society websites or articles on discussion boards like Stamporama essential to get the full picture.
There is an old adage which I find to be true "Philately starts where the catalogue ends".
I also find library catalogues useful - here in the UK libraries sometimes sell off surplus books - and an inter-library loan is available for volumes that your local library does not stock. However to take advantage of that you need to have the material you want to check organised in advance as loan periods on such books are usually short.
Malcolm
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12:24:58am
" ... Unless you are obsessed by "the Value" of your collection - an up-to-date catalogue is an expensive luxury. ..."
As are many stampers. Yet, as we have discussed several times, a collection is never worth the total of the catalog listings since for several good reasons closed albums sell at a fraction of the "Catalog" number. What that fraction is a function of the buyer's identity, means and purpose.
It also fluctuates according to the interlocked whimsy's of the market's supply, demand and popularity.
A vast collection of minimal value stamps are seldom sold even for a fraction of that minimal value.
For example; suppose I said that I had a world wide collection of postally used decently cancelled stampsthat were listed in Scott's with a total of $50,000. That would imply about 250,000 stamps.
Assuming that funds were available, what would it likely sell for ?
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If they are of minimal value, then most likely there are very few complete sets. If the collection were organized by country, I'd say that the most you could sell it for to a dealer is no more than $1,000 to $2,000 (less than one cent per stamp). The dealer will either turn it around with a quick sell intact, or break the collection apart by country and sell it piecemeal as quickly as possible. It will not be worth the dealer's time to put the stamps in stock and try to sell them one at a time.
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Our club looked at a accumulation/collection of 20 some albums that a fellow had inherited. We offered to buy his collection but had only 2 thousand dollars and since his father had notated every stamp at catalog value (including fairly modern Canada and United States) and came up with over $100,000 catalog he declined our offer. He took the stamps to an auction place in Geneva New York and as it happened one of our members was nearby and attended the auction to see what the stamps realized. The owner realized FOUR percent ..four thousand dollars...but hey..for him it was all gravy..he inherited the stamps !
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"The owner realized FOUR percent"
That 4% ($4,000) is not the net after the auction house takes it cut, right?
Also, that's another reason why a dealer won't pay much for common stamps. The hammer price set the retail value of that collection at only 4% of catalog value. The seller will receive less than that from the sale.
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02:32:19am
" .... The seller will receive less than that from the sale. ...."
Aaaa, and he will be able to brag about the guys who tried to cheat him out of his inheritance, but he was too smart for them. (leaving out the details, of course.)
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Michael, yes he realized something like $4,025.00 net . It seems pretty low from what i saw, many of the albums were country collections..he started out well but then the books starting looking cluttered. Appearance certainly counts.
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Okay. That's not overly bad then, and he probably got a little lucky too.
You hit it right on the spot with a collection that is well organized. well kept and with stamps in very fine condition will sell better and for a higher price.
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05:48:28pm
" ... his father had notated every stamp at catalog value ........... and came up with over $100,000 catalog .."
I'm curious, Phil, would you recall if he had an actual count of the number of stamps ?
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Sorry Charlie, i only met him once...but he was cataloging lower value mint Canada and U.S. at full cat..that certainly pumped up the catalog value .
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We purchased a full 2011 Scotts set for $70 from our library. They have a continual book sale for old and out of date library books and put our name on the list in case catalogues ever came up for sale. Any we're happy with the price and whole set...
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08:29:58pm
" .... Any we're happy with the price and whole set... ...."
I should think so. Good luck with it.
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Someone posted the idea of taking your stamps to the public library and using the Scott Catalogs there. That's a good form of publicity for stamp collecting since so many young kids know nothing about stamps and may get a glimpse of our great hobby. I attended NY2016 and didn't see many young folks.
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No use going to our Public library,they haven't even got the old ones they used to have and according to the librarian they are not buying any more due to the escalating cost involved..
Beats me though as they share the books around all the libraries in South Australia!!!.
Brian
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I recently bought a used set of used Scott catalogues — Vol. 2 is 2013, the rest 2014. I thought that I should replace the 20th Century set that I had! Anyway, before I bought them I would occasionally borrow a recent catalogue from the local branch of the Vancouver Public Library. Then, a few years ago, they only had a reference set that could be borrowed, but you could request volumes for borrowing from the main branch. Now they don't even have a reference set. In fact, they no longer have a reference section — it's been replaced by about a dozen computers. I talked to a librarian about the possibility of having the Scott catalogues in their collection again, but she said she's aware of only two or three other borrowers who have asked for it, and they can't afford to invest in it for so few users.
About getting kids interested in stamps: For several months now, I've been going to the library every afternoon to write, including Saturdays and Sundays. I'd say the average age of library users is around 45 or 50. Occasionally — maybe a couple times a week — I see one or two young people of high school age, and there is a library playtime for pre-schoolers at 3:00 p.m. If there were a set of Scott or Stanley Gibbons catalogues in the stacks, I seriously doubt I'd see any young person avidly turning the pages. Between 2002 and 2014, I was heavily involved in the BC Philatelic Society, serving on the executive for several years volunteering several times as VANPEX chair and/or exhibits chair. In all of those years, we had exactly two teenage members, one of whom stayed just a year. At VANPEX we had perhaps five or six youth exhibits, and the I only saw three Canadian kids at VANPEX — two of them were the sons of a judge and one the grandson of an exhibitor. (One year we did have several youth exhibitors from India.)
I don't think that stamp collecting is even close to death, but its base is not and will not be youth. It's us, middle-aged and older war babies and baby boomers. When we're gone, I dunno….
Bob
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Bob's experience and views are similar to mine
My mom, still on the right side of 90, volunteers at the Cleveland library. She used to get me full sets of recently deacquisitioned Scott's, usually in full or nearly-full sets. That dried up about a decade ago, and I haven't seen anything since. Her branch is the main into which all the city and county libraries send their stuff. Scotts on the shelves of libraries seems to be a remembered thing only.
Users tend to be older, or poorer, folks using the printing and internet facilities.
and, as to those who come to our club meetings, we mostly get older guys.
David
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Our local library system does carry a current Scott's and several of our local club members do use them regularly. We're fortunate from what I'm reading here!
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My local branch has the newest set in the reference section and a couple of very recent sets available for check out.
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My library has a full six volume set plus the US Specialized. 2009 edition, I believe. You can check them out but I never see any missing when I am there. My stepson works at the library in the next city over. I told him to look out for any they are getting rid of!
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In Northern VA its quite easy to get Scott Catalogs to check out. I used to check them out years ago, but I'm really bad at remembering to return items, so the fines started mounting.
I decided to just buy used sets when necessary, say every 5-10 years. For Scott catalogs, I currently have 2010 complete set and 2012 US Specialized. I don't really care that perhaps the 2010 CV is different from 2016, as I don't take much stock in CV's anyway.
In 2018 I'll probably buy a set of 2015 catalogs.
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You can see why Amos Press is having issues. They no doubt depend on regular library purchases of the full set to produce them annually. When half the libraries in the country stop, yes there is a cash flow problem!
Still the numbers in this hobby will sustain it for our lifetime. Just seeing the money and power at the recent International show in NYC confirms that.
Bob's description of the population of a recent show is also the situation in other hobbies. My model car club runs the largest show in the country and 1200 people come from all over the USA, Canada and a few visitors from Europe and Australia. The kids attending are all the children of avid hobbyists. And note that the largest event in this hobby is run by a club of volunteers. There is no money in this hobby and it will certainly die out long before stamp collecting.
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Even more interesting to me than the lack of Scott catalogues at my library is the closure of the reference section. I well remember the Christmas Day in the early 1950s when the main Christmas present for my sister and me was a set of World Book encyclopedias. That set of encyclopedias survived until at least 2010 when my mom died; a few years before that she asked me if I wanted it. After she died, my sister suggested that we try to sell it on eBay.
I have no trouble understanding why the reference section has gone the way of the dodo, at least locally. What I don't understand is intelligent people of our generation who scorn the internet. A friend of mine, an avid collector who is quite knowledgeable about German stamps and specializes in Canada's Centennial Issue, and is widely read, only uses his computer for email because the internet is "a waste of time". Well, maybe it is! Look where I am at this very moment! 
Bob
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I sold my 2004 Scott's catalogues (complete set) that I got in THE HOARD about 6 months ago for $50, now I just use the library ones when I need them or can get them. Buying their old copies is a great idea but a case of "who you know" for me.
I wanted to have color pictures as they are easier to see. So around the same time I asked my local Head Librarian to let me know when they were being sold off and she took my name & number. I asked 3 more times since. Lo and behold, the 2017s just started appearing and all of the 2013, 2014, and 2015 reference catalogues suddenly disappeared. When I asked about them she told me "we didn't include them in our public sell-off of books, they were all sold to another patron, but I can't tell you who due to privacy reasons"...
On the flip side...
I had taken out the 2017 Volume 3 (G-I) which I use most of all of them primarily for Germany & Great Britain. I have been accumulating late fees since mid-June as it disappeared somewhere between my home and the library shelf. Yesterday they told me I hit the maximum $20 fine so I have one week now to return it or they will charge me $40 for the lost book (which also wipes off the $20 late fees as they don't "double-dip"). I was going to just pay and get it over yesterday but she said, "I will still give you a week just in case, because if you find it later we won't give you a refund once we write it off our system".
I decided to do my year-end corporate taxes today and guess what I found under a bunch of papers? Yep, Scott Volume 3 !!! So for $40 (no taxes) I can have a brand new 2017 catalogue (and the one I would want if I could just choose one).
So, worth it? And is it ethical under the circumstances (especially since I was a hair away from paying the non-refundable fee anyway 12 hours ago).
Thoughts?
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I most certainly would not judge you if you paid the fee and kept the book....however, to me, I don't think I could do it. Libraries always stress "we'd rather have the book than the fines", The $40 number is a number they came up with to help mitigate everyone's losses, theirs AND yours. If you paid the $40, that doesn't mean that another copy would appear on the shelf next week. In my mind, the right thing to do is to get the book back to the library as soon as possible so other library patrons can enjoy it.
Ernie
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you asked if it's ethical: it's not
as you surely must know, that is NOT the replacement cost for a 2017 Scott volume. So, either patrons lose their access and/or the library must dig into their reserves so you get a discounted Scott.
A bargain is one thing; theivery something else.
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It wouldn't be ethical even if $40 did cover the cost of a catalogue. Failing to return a book to a library results in work for the library staff that could otherwise be devoted to other tasks. Libraries here in British Columbia are perennially understaffed and often under threat of closure. Our local library branch, which I mentioned previously, closes at 6:00 p.m. on Wednesdays and 5:00 p.m. on Fridays and Sundays. It is a cost-saving measure, not a measure of use — when it's open, it's busy. The loss of books for any reason certainly doesn't help their bottom line.
There's also the question of other users who just may have wanted to borrow a catalogue that someone else failed to return. More than once I've requested a book only to be told that it hasn't been returned.
Bob
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Nearly the same thing happened to me (as I mentioned I am a soft touch for library late fees). But I returned the book instead. It was hard to justify as anything less than unethical.
Now I do have to say: I have some pretty nice hardback books of Mozart Piano Sonatas and Chopin Piano Works that I acquired from a couple school (university) libraries when I was in high school (I was a soft touch back then too). I reached the max and paid for the books, with not much thought for ethics (I was a teen), but they weren't cheap by any means. I've use those things for decades and my children are using them now.
Edit: actually as I recall now, there was no max on fines at that time (at those libraries) and the price of paying for the music books was much less than the fines. I vaguely recall at least one librarian agreeing that paying for the book made more sense.
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Thanks for the responses. Glad to see everyone agreed with my inclination on the ethics. I did not want to tip my hand as I figured there may be a huge divergence of opinion and possibly even some firebombs given how other seemingly innocent postings have devolved lately...
Now another word on Karma. I dropped the catalogue off on my way to the office. The librarian was so happy (for me!) that she deleted the $20 late fee.
Now I can bid on more stamps (that I don't actually need!) 
Cheers, Dave.
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"Now I can bid on more stamps (that I don't actually need!)"
Forget about NEED - do you WANT them?
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"HungaryForStamps:I have some pretty nice hardback books of Mozart Piano Sonatas and Chopin Piano Works that I acquired from a couple school (university) libraries when I was in high school"
I obtained Leonard Bernstein's "The Joy of Music" in a similar manner, when I was unable to locate it, and had to pay for it before obtaining my high school diploma.
Ted
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My club, the BC Philatelic Society, has a model similar to that of Anglophile's club, with the difference that, as far as I know, we have always had a place to store the catalogues at our meeting venues (of which there have been many, unfortunately). And the club is being forced to move soon to a new venue because the church it meets in is going to be demolished and replaced with a high-rise. The good news: When the high-rise is finished, the club and the church will be provided with meeting space, thank God. Or Someone. 
For several years, the club has had an excellent treasurer, and has a bank balance in excess of $20,000. With no more than 100 members ever, and now around 60, that's not bad. Unfortunately, that treasurer has now resigned. We've also had terrible problems with getting volunteers. For several years, off and on, we've not had a secretary. j
I was president for several years, and it sometimes became very stressful. At one point, and at my suggestion, the club agreed to rotate our annual catalogue purchases among three dealers. Previously, all of the business had gone to one dealer. One day I got an angry call from the dealer who had been "shut out" (he hadn't been) who accused me of colluding with another dealer so he would lose business. The episode was a good reminder that one of the problems with stamp collecting is that the stamps and a covers that we collect (and the catalogues and other supplies that we need) are both collectibles and commodities. When you pour money into the mix, you got trouble. As my wife says of any problem in society, "Follow the money."
Bob
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Chris & Bob,
Sounds like you guys have very vibrant and fun local clubs. That is so awesome wish I had one like that close to me. My only concern, and it's not really a concern so much as a big question is...what in the world is the club going to do with the money. There very well could be a situation where the club has simply amassed TOO MUCH money.
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Oh, wow Chris. Hats off to you and the club. That's tremendous. Membership in action. I love it.
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08:36:03pm
being new to the addictive world of stamps I was wondering about the scott catalogs. They tell you the differences in the stamps and the different varieties per stamp correct? Is there a online subscription anywhere online or website for them? all i can find are the ebooks.An online subscription would be very handy.
my 2nd question is: First starting out is it ok to go with an older version to get started? The new ones are VERY expensive and i would need one for every country
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re: scott catalog general question
Hi Bill,
You can definitely find an older version of the catalogue in decent condition. And you're right: they are great tools for getting yourself organized. Scott will not necessarily publish listings for every variety of stamp; but all of the main variations are there. To get even more into the weeds, you would need a specialized catalogue for each country - for example, Unitrade for Canada.
Instead of buying, first check to see if your local library has a set on their shelves somewhere. That's what I rely on to keep current. At $90 per volume new, I'd rather blow my $540 total on new stamps!
Good luck in your search!
Andrew
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09:29:56pm
re: scott catalog general question
thanks for the info. I did purchase a 1967 scott national album i havent had much time to play with that is pretty informative and actually has quite a few stamps in it already
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09:38:05pm
re: scott catalog general question
" At $90 per volume new"
The 2015 catalogs were $120.00 per volume.
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re: scott catalog general question
"The 2015 catalogs were $120.00 per volume."
D'oh!!!!!So that would be $720 worth of stamps that we could buy... See what I did there? I just increased my stamp budget!
Andrejs
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Nov 2015
12:47:02pm
re: scott catalog general question
" ... "The 2015 catalogs were $120.00 per volume." ..."
I thought that $90 was a bargain.
I haven't bought a New Scott in so many years, and the last used sit was easily fifteen years ago at $5.00 per volume.
I did buy a S. Gibbons specialized Volume 4 about three tears ago and am so disappointed in its format, and numerous errors and omissions I'll probably never do that again.
Bill, I have found that, at almost all midsized to major stamp shows, at least one dealer will have a pile of slightly out-of-date catalogs priced reasonably. I also learned years ago that during the last hour or so when a few dealers start to pack up to go home, a dealer who has lugged a sled full of catalogs around, that did not sell, will usually be amenable to a cash offer, It seems that $25 in the hand will pay for a meal on the long drive home far better that $100.00 of heavy books in the trunk.
That is how I accumulated my set of Billig's Handbooks and a decent group of specialist books.
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re: scott catalog general question
IF your local library has the catalogs you might ask the librarian about buying the ones they have when they replace them with newer versions, I picked up a complete 7 volume set
for $35.00, never hurts to ask
Also ebay might be another avenue
Good Luck.......Bill
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re: scott catalog general question
Hello,
I go to the library and ask for the most recent edtions.Sometimes I have to reserve the volumes or work with some and get the others later in the month. I belong to a big system who will move the book closer to me once I reseve the catalog.
If you are keeping track of your duplicates I include what year I used, in pencil on the stock sheet or sheets I wrote the scott numbers on. When I get a newer version the scott number did not change, only the value(maybe).
Another souce is an advanced collecter in your local club. These advancd collecters with big collections will buy the catalog more often, so thats where I get my used catalogs from!
Good Luck!
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re: scott catalog general question
I was speaking to a stamp dealer wednesday and he strongly suggested that collectors take a group of stamps that need cataloging to the library..in other words..why would anyone who is not in the stamp business spend $500 or so for catalogs ?..spend it on stamps instead ! I have a 2012 set that someone probably paid 20 dollars (or got them free) from a library..i paid $175.00 for them on the internet in 2013 ..i am not planning on making that kind of an outlay for catalogs again any time soon !
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re: scott catalog general question
My dad did that all the time! At least three times a week he would head over to the local library with a mini stock book of stamps he wanted to take a peak at and would spend hours there. I do that too, on occasion. It's a great way to spend a morning or afternoon; and when you get home, you're raring to go on organizing the collection.
By the way, a stamp dealer would tell you to spend money on stamps instead of catalogues. It was good advice, but not completely altruistic...
Andrew
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Nov 2015
10:31:48am
re: scott catalog general question
" .... By the way, a stamp dealer would tell you to spend money on stamps instead of catalogues. It was good advice, but not completely altruistic... ...."
I'd say the same and that is completely altruistic.
Come to think of it I do believe I have said, or written, that a dozen times.
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re: scott catalog general question
We take everything he says with a grain of salt...but some friends have been suggesting the library route for years..and now the price of scott paper is starting to sting ! Of course if i stick strictly to my cover collecting..i could purchase a lot of covers for the cost of a set of scott catalogs !
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
21 Nov 2015
12:25:34pm
re: scott catalog general question
For most collectors' purposes, a very recent set of Scott's is unnecessary. Complete sets a few years old will do just as well. Browsing eBay's completed listings for complete sets of Scotts catalogues shows many sets in the 2010-2012 years selling for $50-70.
A little patience and watching should provide the opportunity to grab one of these. That's an investment in information that I think is well worth it.
Roy
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09:15:44pm
re: scott catalog general question
Here's an update on the price of Scott catalogs. I did not buy the 2016 set, but I have found that it sold for $125.00 each volume. That's another $30.00 to add onto the total cost. I dread to see what the 2017 edition will cost, and I absolutely don't want to know what 2018 will cost if they break it down into a bunch of small regional volumes.
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re: scott catalog general question
I will continue to buy the catalog pages of the countries I collect.
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re: scott catalog general question
I agree that it is better to spend your money on stamps than on new catalogs every year. I buy a new Scott Classic World specialized every three years. It has all stamps issued for the world thru 1940. These are the stamps that are most likely to have significant value subject to occasional change. In addition I buy a couple year old full set of Scott's standard catalogs every five years. This seems to work best for me. If you really need a new catalog value for a stamp or set it is easily gotten by asking for help on chat boards.
If one is collecting the world they surely need a complete set of older standard catalogs at least. Sets that are ten years old or so are often given away by other collectors for the cost of shipping. On the other hand they can be found on Ebby quite cheaply but shipping is always a big consideration so it is usually best to buy a complete set from the same person to keep shipping costs down.
There is a free online catalog that can be very useful, it can be found here: Stamp World Catalog
It cannot replace hard copy catalogs but prices are basically up to date.
Stanley Gibbons also has a free online catalog, here: Gibbons Online Catalog
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-11-23 21:26:39)
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05:39:57am
re: scott catalog general question
I agree with Mitch. Unless you are obsessed by "the Value" of your collection - an up-to-date catalogue is an expensive luxury.
The fact is that very few catalogues satisfy the needs of collectors. A simplified catalogue is often too simplistic even for general all the world collectors like me whereas specialised catalogues are never specialised enough for real specialists. There are some exceptions -the Deegam catalogue for GB Machin stamps is a "proper" specialised cataloge - it is almost a case of "too much information"
I don't know anything about Scotts but as a general all-world collector ( beyond the simplified ) the Gibbons Specialised catalogues provide a "road-map", but even then I find that specialised society websites or articles on discussion boards like Stamporama essential to get the full picture.
There is an old adage which I find to be true "Philately starts where the catalogue ends".
I also find library catalogues useful - here in the UK libraries sometimes sell off surplus books - and an inter-library loan is available for volumes that your local library does not stock. However to take advantage of that you need to have the material you want to check organised in advance as loan periods on such books are usually short.
Malcolm
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Nov 2015
12:24:58am
re: scott catalog general question
" ... Unless you are obsessed by "the Value" of your collection - an up-to-date catalogue is an expensive luxury. ..."
As are many stampers. Yet, as we have discussed several times, a collection is never worth the total of the catalog listings since for several good reasons closed albums sell at a fraction of the "Catalog" number. What that fraction is a function of the buyer's identity, means and purpose.
It also fluctuates according to the interlocked whimsy's of the market's supply, demand and popularity.
A vast collection of minimal value stamps are seldom sold even for a fraction of that minimal value.
For example; suppose I said that I had a world wide collection of postally used decently cancelled stampsthat were listed in Scott's with a total of $50,000. That would imply about 250,000 stamps.
Assuming that funds were available, what would it likely sell for ?
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04:03:11am
re: scott catalog general question
If they are of minimal value, then most likely there are very few complete sets. If the collection were organized by country, I'd say that the most you could sell it for to a dealer is no more than $1,000 to $2,000 (less than one cent per stamp). The dealer will either turn it around with a quick sell intact, or break the collection apart by country and sell it piecemeal as quickly as possible. It will not be worth the dealer's time to put the stamps in stock and try to sell them one at a time.
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re: scott catalog general question
Our club looked at a accumulation/collection of 20 some albums that a fellow had inherited. We offered to buy his collection but had only 2 thousand dollars and since his father had notated every stamp at catalog value (including fairly modern Canada and United States) and came up with over $100,000 catalog he declined our offer. He took the stamps to an auction place in Geneva New York and as it happened one of our members was nearby and attended the auction to see what the stamps realized. The owner realized FOUR percent ..four thousand dollars...but hey..for him it was all gravy..he inherited the stamps !
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11:49:24pm
re: scott catalog general question
"The owner realized FOUR percent"
That 4% ($4,000) is not the net after the auction house takes it cut, right?
Also, that's another reason why a dealer won't pay much for common stamps. The hammer price set the retail value of that collection at only 4% of catalog value. The seller will receive less than that from the sale.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Nov 2015
02:32:19am
re: scott catalog general question
" .... The seller will receive less than that from the sale. ...."
Aaaa, and he will be able to brag about the guys who tried to cheat him out of his inheritance, but he was too smart for them. (leaving out the details, of course.)
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re: scott catalog general question
Michael, yes he realized something like $4,025.00 net . It seems pretty low from what i saw, many of the albums were country collections..he started out well but then the books starting looking cluttered. Appearance certainly counts.
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12:41:35pm
re: scott catalog general question
Okay. That's not overly bad then, and he probably got a little lucky too.
You hit it right on the spot with a collection that is well organized. well kept and with stamps in very fine condition will sell better and for a higher price.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Nov 2015
05:48:28pm
re: scott catalog general question
" ... his father had notated every stamp at catalog value ........... and came up with over $100,000 catalog .."
I'm curious, Phil, would you recall if he had an actual count of the number of stamps ?
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re: scott catalog general question
Sorry Charlie, i only met him once...but he was cataloging lower value mint Canada and U.S. at full cat..that certainly pumped up the catalog value .
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08:50:29pm
re: scott catalog general question
We purchased a full 2011 Scotts set for $70 from our library. They have a continual book sale for old and out of date library books and put our name on the list in case catalogues ever came up for sale. Any we're happy with the price and whole set...
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
03 Dec 2015
08:29:58pm
re: scott catalog general question
" .... Any we're happy with the price and whole set... ...."
I should think so. Good luck with it.
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10:13:05pm
re: scott catalog general question
Someone posted the idea of taking your stamps to the public library and using the Scott Catalogs there. That's a good form of publicity for stamp collecting since so many young kids know nothing about stamps and may get a glimpse of our great hobby. I attended NY2016 and didn't see many young folks.
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re: scott catalog general question
No use going to our Public library,they haven't even got the old ones they used to have and according to the librarian they are not buying any more due to the escalating cost involved..
Beats me though as they share the books around all the libraries in South Australia!!!.
Brian
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re: scott catalog general question
I recently bought a used set of used Scott catalogues — Vol. 2 is 2013, the rest 2014. I thought that I should replace the 20th Century set that I had! Anyway, before I bought them I would occasionally borrow a recent catalogue from the local branch of the Vancouver Public Library. Then, a few years ago, they only had a reference set that could be borrowed, but you could request volumes for borrowing from the main branch. Now they don't even have a reference set. In fact, they no longer have a reference section — it's been replaced by about a dozen computers. I talked to a librarian about the possibility of having the Scott catalogues in their collection again, but she said she's aware of only two or three other borrowers who have asked for it, and they can't afford to invest in it for so few users.
About getting kids interested in stamps: For several months now, I've been going to the library every afternoon to write, including Saturdays and Sundays. I'd say the average age of library users is around 45 or 50. Occasionally — maybe a couple times a week — I see one or two young people of high school age, and there is a library playtime for pre-schoolers at 3:00 p.m. If there were a set of Scott or Stanley Gibbons catalogues in the stacks, I seriously doubt I'd see any young person avidly turning the pages. Between 2002 and 2014, I was heavily involved in the BC Philatelic Society, serving on the executive for several years volunteering several times as VANPEX chair and/or exhibits chair. In all of those years, we had exactly two teenage members, one of whom stayed just a year. At VANPEX we had perhaps five or six youth exhibits, and the I only saw three Canadian kids at VANPEX — two of them were the sons of a judge and one the grandson of an exhibitor. (One year we did have several youth exhibitors from India.)
I don't think that stamp collecting is even close to death, but its base is not and will not be youth. It's us, middle-aged and older war babies and baby boomers. When we're gone, I dunno….
Bob
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re: scott catalog general question
Bob's experience and views are similar to mine
My mom, still on the right side of 90, volunteers at the Cleveland library. She used to get me full sets of recently deacquisitioned Scott's, usually in full or nearly-full sets. That dried up about a decade ago, and I haven't seen anything since. Her branch is the main into which all the city and county libraries send their stuff. Scotts on the shelves of libraries seems to be a remembered thing only.
Users tend to be older, or poorer, folks using the printing and internet facilities.
and, as to those who come to our club meetings, we mostly get older guys.
David
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re: scott catalog general question
Our local library system does carry a current Scott's and several of our local club members do use them regularly. We're fortunate from what I'm reading here!
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12:47:58pm
re: scott catalog general question
My local branch has the newest set in the reference section and a couple of very recent sets available for check out.
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re: scott catalog general question
My library has a full six volume set plus the US Specialized. 2009 edition, I believe. You can check them out but I never see any missing when I am there. My stepson works at the library in the next city over. I told him to look out for any they are getting rid of!
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re: scott catalog general question
In Northern VA its quite easy to get Scott Catalogs to check out. I used to check them out years ago, but I'm really bad at remembering to return items, so the fines started mounting.
I decided to just buy used sets when necessary, say every 5-10 years. For Scott catalogs, I currently have 2010 complete set and 2012 US Specialized. I don't really care that perhaps the 2010 CV is different from 2016, as I don't take much stock in CV's anyway.
In 2018 I'll probably buy a set of 2015 catalogs.
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re: scott catalog general question
You can see why Amos Press is having issues. They no doubt depend on regular library purchases of the full set to produce them annually. When half the libraries in the country stop, yes there is a cash flow problem!
Still the numbers in this hobby will sustain it for our lifetime. Just seeing the money and power at the recent International show in NYC confirms that.
Bob's description of the population of a recent show is also the situation in other hobbies. My model car club runs the largest show in the country and 1200 people come from all over the USA, Canada and a few visitors from Europe and Australia. The kids attending are all the children of avid hobbyists. And note that the largest event in this hobby is run by a club of volunteers. There is no money in this hobby and it will certainly die out long before stamp collecting.
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re: scott catalog general question
Even more interesting to me than the lack of Scott catalogues at my library is the closure of the reference section. I well remember the Christmas Day in the early 1950s when the main Christmas present for my sister and me was a set of World Book encyclopedias. That set of encyclopedias survived until at least 2010 when my mom died; a few years before that she asked me if I wanted it. After she died, my sister suggested that we try to sell it on eBay.
I have no trouble understanding why the reference section has gone the way of the dodo, at least locally. What I don't understand is intelligent people of our generation who scorn the internet. A friend of mine, an avid collector who is quite knowledgeable about German stamps and specializes in Canada's Centennial Issue, and is widely read, only uses his computer for email because the internet is "a waste of time". Well, maybe it is! Look where I am at this very moment!
Bob
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re: scott catalog general question
I sold my 2004 Scott's catalogues (complete set) that I got in THE HOARD about 6 months ago for $50, now I just use the library ones when I need them or can get them. Buying their old copies is a great idea but a case of "who you know" for me.
I wanted to have color pictures as they are easier to see. So around the same time I asked my local Head Librarian to let me know when they were being sold off and she took my name & number. I asked 3 more times since. Lo and behold, the 2017s just started appearing and all of the 2013, 2014, and 2015 reference catalogues suddenly disappeared. When I asked about them she told me "we didn't include them in our public sell-off of books, they were all sold to another patron, but I can't tell you who due to privacy reasons"...
On the flip side...
I had taken out the 2017 Volume 3 (G-I) which I use most of all of them primarily for Germany & Great Britain. I have been accumulating late fees since mid-June as it disappeared somewhere between my home and the library shelf. Yesterday they told me I hit the maximum $20 fine so I have one week now to return it or they will charge me $40 for the lost book (which also wipes off the $20 late fees as they don't "double-dip"). I was going to just pay and get it over yesterday but she said, "I will still give you a week just in case, because if you find it later we won't give you a refund once we write it off our system".
I decided to do my year-end corporate taxes today and guess what I found under a bunch of papers? Yep, Scott Volume 3 !!! So for $40 (no taxes) I can have a brand new 2017 catalogue (and the one I would want if I could just choose one).
So, worth it? And is it ethical under the circumstances (especially since I was a hair away from paying the non-refundable fee anyway 12 hours ago).
Thoughts?
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01:42:15pm
re: scott catalog general question
I most certainly would not judge you if you paid the fee and kept the book....however, to me, I don't think I could do it. Libraries always stress "we'd rather have the book than the fines", The $40 number is a number they came up with to help mitigate everyone's losses, theirs AND yours. If you paid the $40, that doesn't mean that another copy would appear on the shelf next week. In my mind, the right thing to do is to get the book back to the library as soon as possible so other library patrons can enjoy it.
Ernie
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re: scott catalog general question
you asked if it's ethical: it's not
as you surely must know, that is NOT the replacement cost for a 2017 Scott volume. So, either patrons lose their access and/or the library must dig into their reserves so you get a discounted Scott.
A bargain is one thing; theivery something else.
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re: scott catalog general question
It wouldn't be ethical even if $40 did cover the cost of a catalogue. Failing to return a book to a library results in work for the library staff that could otherwise be devoted to other tasks. Libraries here in British Columbia are perennially understaffed and often under threat of closure. Our local library branch, which I mentioned previously, closes at 6:00 p.m. on Wednesdays and 5:00 p.m. on Fridays and Sundays. It is a cost-saving measure, not a measure of use — when it's open, it's busy. The loss of books for any reason certainly doesn't help their bottom line.
There's also the question of other users who just may have wanted to borrow a catalogue that someone else failed to return. More than once I've requested a book only to be told that it hasn't been returned.
Bob
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re: scott catalog general question
Nearly the same thing happened to me (as I mentioned I am a soft touch for library late fees). But I returned the book instead. It was hard to justify as anything less than unethical.
Now I do have to say: I have some pretty nice hardback books of Mozart Piano Sonatas and Chopin Piano Works that I acquired from a couple school (university) libraries when I was in high school (I was a soft touch back then too). I reached the max and paid for the books, with not much thought for ethics (I was a teen), but they weren't cheap by any means. I've use those things for decades and my children are using them now.
Edit: actually as I recall now, there was no max on fines at that time (at those libraries) and the price of paying for the music books was much less than the fines. I vaguely recall at least one librarian agreeing that paying for the book made more sense.
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re: scott catalog general question
Thanks for the responses. Glad to see everyone agreed with my inclination on the ethics. I did not want to tip my hand as I figured there may be a huge divergence of opinion and possibly even some firebombs given how other seemingly innocent postings have devolved lately...
Now another word on Karma. I dropped the catalogue off on my way to the office. The librarian was so happy (for me!) that she deleted the $20 late fee.
Now I can bid on more stamps (that I don't actually need!)
Cheers, Dave.
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03:12:02pm
re: scott catalog general question
"Now I can bid on more stamps (that I don't actually need!)"
Forget about NEED - do you WANT them?
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re: scott catalog general question
"HungaryForStamps:I have some pretty nice hardback books of Mozart Piano Sonatas and Chopin Piano Works that I acquired from a couple school (university) libraries when I was in high school"
I obtained Leonard Bernstein's "The Joy of Music" in a similar manner, when I was unable to locate it, and had to pay for it before obtaining my high school diploma.
Ted
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re: scott catalog general question
My club, the BC Philatelic Society, has a model similar to that of Anglophile's club, with the difference that, as far as I know, we have always had a place to store the catalogues at our meeting venues (of which there have been many, unfortunately). And the club is being forced to move soon to a new venue because the church it meets in is going to be demolished and replaced with a high-rise. The good news: When the high-rise is finished, the club and the church will be provided with meeting space, thank God. Or Someone.
For several years, the club has had an excellent treasurer, and has a bank balance in excess of $20,000. With no more than 100 members ever, and now around 60, that's not bad. Unfortunately, that treasurer has now resigned. We've also had terrible problems with getting volunteers. For several years, off and on, we've not had a secretary. j
I was president for several years, and it sometimes became very stressful. At one point, and at my suggestion, the club agreed to rotate our annual catalogue purchases among three dealers. Previously, all of the business had gone to one dealer. One day I got an angry call from the dealer who had been "shut out" (he hadn't been) who accused me of colluding with another dealer so he would lose business. The episode was a good reminder that one of the problems with stamp collecting is that the stamps and a covers that we collect (and the catalogues and other supplies that we need) are both collectibles and commodities. When you pour money into the mix, you got trouble. As my wife says of any problem in society, "Follow the money."
Bob
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07:37:29pm
re: scott catalog general question
Chris & Bob,
Sounds like you guys have very vibrant and fun local clubs. That is so awesome wish I had one like that close to me. My only concern, and it's not really a concern so much as a big question is...what in the world is the club going to do with the money. There very well could be a situation where the club has simply amassed TOO MUCH money.
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10:21:31am
re: scott catalog general question
Oh, wow Chris. Hats off to you and the club. That's tremendous. Membership in action. I love it.
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