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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Decimal perforations

 

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seanpashby
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18 Nov 2015
07:41:32pm
I'm sure there are plenty of members who use this specialty gauge. If you look at section 1, it lists specialized perforation sizes such as 10-72 or 11-73. Who uses these measurements? Are they listed anywhere in scotts?
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parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

19 Nov 2015
12:03:26pm
re: Decimal perforations

These are Kiusalas Perforations...

Here is some background information:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.collecting.postal-history/Kg4XPFzXfMQ

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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seanpashby
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19 Nov 2015
12:24:20pm
re: Decimal perforations

Thanks for that info Bob. What I'm trying to figure out is who uses those measurements?I can't find them anywhere in my Scott's or Minkus catalogs. Is there a catalog or publication that actually uses them?

Sean

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

19 Nov 2015
12:26:02pm
re: Decimal perforations

I guess he had an interesting life. I am sure I read, or skimmed over, one or two of those articles years ago. I think I found it a bit too puzzling then and happily muddled on with my Instanta Gauge.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

19 Nov 2015
01:22:40pm
re: Decimal perforations

Sean,

From what I can find, the Kiusalas perforation gauge is primarily used by expertizers. I quote from The Expert's Book, A practical Guide to the Authentication of United States Stamps, Washington/Franklin Issues 1908-1923 by Paul Schmid. "There are two types of gauges on the market today. The first, and most commonly seen, is the digital type........The second gauge can be called an analog type........Of the two types of gauges, the analog type is generally more useful. In fact, most digital gauges are of no real use to the expertizer. The exception is a gauge called the United States Specialist Gauge, produced in the mid 1960's by Richard Kiusalas designed only for use with United States stamps.

I realize this may only muddy the water, especially since I just read Parkinglot's post. I will make copies of the 4 pages from the book and send to you. It is way to long to post here. Should give you a better understanding of perforation measurements and explain in detail how/why the 10-72 and 11-73 are used. The author of the book does indicate that "Recent studies have indicated that the Kiusalas figures, at least for the perforated 11 settings, may be incomplete or slightly in error."

There are those on this board who are much more knowledgeable in this area than I and may be able to shed more light.

Mel

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khj
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19 Nov 2015
02:12:56pm
re: Decimal perforations

When the Kiusalas gauge came out, it recognized the need to be able to measure perforations more accurately than rounded off to the nearest 1/2 or 1/4. Because of the limited number of cases at that time, it was only necessary to provide a select number of possibilities.

There is also a Kiusalas guage designed for Canadian stamps, in addition to the one for US.

In the Kiusalas number, the right number is the pin spacing in thousandths of an inch. The left number is the corresponding conventional perforation guage number rounded to the nearest 1/2 inch (that was the standard in the US when the Kiusalas gauge came out). So the right number is the actual measurement, while the left number is just for compatibility reference.

In the Sonic Precision US Specialty Multi-Guage shown by Sean, section 1 (Kiusalas gauge) is in reality just a subset of the section 2 decimal gauge. In the Kiusalas section, all the lines have been removed and the spacing represented by dots. Since there are only a select number of decimal perforations on those specific US & Canadian stamps of interest, some experts prefer using the Kiusalas gauge because it removes all the extraneous lines and dots and highlights the decimal perforation of interest.

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seanpashby
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19 Nov 2015
03:30:58pm
re: Decimal perforations

Thank you everyone. It is a little disappointing that scott's specialized catalog only lists a generic 10,11, or 12 perf size when there is a much more accurate scale available. The pdf from Bill Weiss posted here is a step in the right direction.

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seanpashby
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19 Nov 2015
07:22:32pm
re: Decimal perforations

Thank you Mel for those pages, they answer where the measurements came from. Now, does anyone now of a publication that lists the proper measurements of ALL of the Washington/Franklins, like the Weiss page posted above? Either the 10-80 or 9.97 type of measurements would work. It would have been nice if Scott's listed these for each issue.

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seanpashby
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19 Nov 2015
07:51:03pm
re: Decimal perforations

After I went back to look at that Bill Weiss page posted by Chris, thank you Chris, it is actually complete. Thank you again everyone.

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seanpashby

18 Nov 2015
07:41:32pm

I'm sure there are plenty of members who use this specialty gauge. If you look at section 1, it lists specialized perforation sizes such as 10-72 or 11-73. Who uses these measurements? Are they listed anywhere in scotts?
Image Not Found

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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
19 Nov 2015
12:03:26pm

re: Decimal perforations

These are Kiusalas Perforations...

Here is some background information:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.collecting.postal-history/Kg4XPFzXfMQ

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

www.parkinlot-stamps ...
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seanpashby

19 Nov 2015
12:24:20pm

re: Decimal perforations

Thanks for that info Bob. What I'm trying to figure out is who uses those measurements?I can't find them anywhere in my Scott's or Minkus catalogs. Is there a catalog or publication that actually uses them?

Sean

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Nov 2015
12:26:02pm

re: Decimal perforations

I guess he had an interesting life. I am sure I read, or skimmed over, one or two of those articles years ago. I think I found it a bit too puzzling then and happily muddled on with my Instanta Gauge.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
19 Nov 2015
01:22:40pm

re: Decimal perforations

Sean,

From what I can find, the Kiusalas perforation gauge is primarily used by expertizers. I quote from The Expert's Book, A practical Guide to the Authentication of United States Stamps, Washington/Franklin Issues 1908-1923 by Paul Schmid. "There are two types of gauges on the market today. The first, and most commonly seen, is the digital type........The second gauge can be called an analog type........Of the two types of gauges, the analog type is generally more useful. In fact, most digital gauges are of no real use to the expertizer. The exception is a gauge called the United States Specialist Gauge, produced in the mid 1960's by Richard Kiusalas designed only for use with United States stamps.

I realize this may only muddy the water, especially since I just read Parkinglot's post. I will make copies of the 4 pages from the book and send to you. It is way to long to post here. Should give you a better understanding of perforation measurements and explain in detail how/why the 10-72 and 11-73 are used. The author of the book does indicate that "Recent studies have indicated that the Kiusalas figures, at least for the perforated 11 settings, may be incomplete or slightly in error."

There are those on this board who are much more knowledgeable in this area than I and may be able to shed more light.

Mel

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this post
Members Picture
khj

19 Nov 2015
02:12:56pm

re: Decimal perforations

When the Kiusalas gauge came out, it recognized the need to be able to measure perforations more accurately than rounded off to the nearest 1/2 or 1/4. Because of the limited number of cases at that time, it was only necessary to provide a select number of possibilities.

There is also a Kiusalas guage designed for Canadian stamps, in addition to the one for US.

In the Kiusalas number, the right number is the pin spacing in thousandths of an inch. The left number is the corresponding conventional perforation guage number rounded to the nearest 1/2 inch (that was the standard in the US when the Kiusalas gauge came out). So the right number is the actual measurement, while the left number is just for compatibility reference.

In the Sonic Precision US Specialty Multi-Guage shown by Sean, section 1 (Kiusalas gauge) is in reality just a subset of the section 2 decimal gauge. In the Kiusalas section, all the lines have been removed and the spacing represented by dots. Since there are only a select number of decimal perforations on those specific US & Canadian stamps of interest, some experts prefer using the Kiusalas gauge because it removes all the extraneous lines and dots and highlights the decimal perforation of interest.

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this post
Members Picture
seanpashby

19 Nov 2015
03:30:58pm

re: Decimal perforations

Thank you everyone. It is a little disappointing that scott's specialized catalog only lists a generic 10,11, or 12 perf size when there is a much more accurate scale available. The pdf from Bill Weiss posted here is a step in the right direction.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
seanpashby

19 Nov 2015
07:22:32pm

re: Decimal perforations

Thank you Mel for those pages, they answer where the measurements came from. Now, does anyone now of a publication that lists the proper measurements of ALL of the Washington/Franklins, like the Weiss page posted above? Either the 10-80 or 9.97 type of measurements would work. It would have been nice if Scott's listed these for each issue.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
seanpashby

19 Nov 2015
07:51:03pm

re: Decimal perforations

After I went back to look at that Bill Weiss page posted by Chris, thank you Chris, it is actually complete. Thank you again everyone.

Like
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this post
        

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