Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Either the material is too expensive, or too rare, and in such high demand that bidding wars price it out of my league. I keep hoping, but alas, without much success.
Like all collectors (I assume all do), I hate these empty spots in my albums. So as of late, I have started to look at modern facsimiles to fill in the gaps. I duly note it when I put a facsimile (or a counterfeit) on my pages, and I have even thought of marking the back of the stamp with indelible ink to make sure it does not eventually end up on the market as genuine, but I am not sure what I should use without it bleeding through to the front.
There are no guidelines for pricing modern facsimiles, however I noticed that listed prices often seem to be associated to the values of the original stamps. This I truly do not understand.
Some time ago I discussed Yemen and possible counterfeits or authentic copies of my missing #1-#3. A very respected high quality dealer has the 3 stamps as facsimiles on sale (duly marked on the back), and I am maybe interested. So the question I have is: What would you consider a reasonable price for such material? Or, since I am asking an opinion, what would you pay, in such a situation? And I know about market forces etc...but sincerely, what would you pay for ANY stamp that is a modern facsimile?
Here are (from the sellers listed material on ebay) the Yemen 3 stamps I am looking at. But the subject of this post is generic, and I post these here as an illustration. What would be your guideline for any stamp?
rrr..
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25 cents
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And a side question: are these the facsimiles of genuine or counterfeit Yemen stamps?
rrr...
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If its a well made facsimile, say one that includes engraving and perfs I would throw a few bucks.
But if its something that looks like it was made on a home printer I would not touch.
I would rather copy an image and print it myself, been there done that.
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"They list at $12"
You asked what would I expect to pay. 25 cents it is, unless the "listing price" is based on a catalog value, then my buying price would be based on the catalog value, but never full price.
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12:52:39pm
I'd pay nothing. If I wanted a fake in my album, I'd just cut out an old image from a color catalog or simply print one myself. I have a lot of holes in my collection, and some badly damaged "originals" filling some, but no fakes pretending to be something that are not.
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But why would the listed price of a facsimile be related to the value of the original stamp?
rrr...
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"I have a lot of holes in my collection"
If you do that, you'll wind up with alot of holes in your catalogs too!
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12:56:19pm
But they would equal the number of holes in my head. 
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Ralph, many reprints (officially sanctioned) are little more than facsimiles. El Salvador is a prime example of that with the Seebeck reprints. Scott does footnote many of them, but mostly they are of minimal value.
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I have used cutouts of illustrations from auction catalogs- many of them look surprisingly good in a black mount and far better than having an empty space.
Few of the wares offered as 'reproductions' on Ebay meet my standards. One seller I tried sent me some Washing-Franklin blue paper fakes that were laughable. They were tinted a pronounced bluish tone- the real blue papers are more gray than blue. Also they were larger than the originals and would not fit in the album spaces.
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Nelson, you are right. Counterfeits have their own place. Some are worth more than the original stamp.
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John Sheffield Philatelist Ltd. (Canada) just sold a reprint of Australia Sanabria 1 for $30 Canadian. The genuine article is very rare, although it comes up for auction occasionally. Copies with selvedge and in good condition go for $5,000 to $11,000.
Here's mine, a reprint:
I think I paid a dollar for this. I certainly wouldn't pay $30, Canadian or U.S.!
The original is on watermarked paper. Reprints are not.
Ed Foster
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I'm with Bobby on this,
No offense to anyone regarding their collecting interests but to me, facsimiles are just pictures. They hold no value and I would rather have a hole in the collection than a facsimile.
-Ernie
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I've accepted the fact that I will wind up with a certain number of empty spaces in my collection, but I made sure I chose areas to collect where that would be at a minimum. I will not add known fakes, forgeries, or facsimiles to my albums. I would rather have a badly damaged, but genuine, stamp to fill a hole if it's something I would not otherwise be able to afford. There are other alternatives as well, but may be not be available in all collecting areas. Things like proofs, or official reprints, would be more acceptable IMHO than facsimiles. Just my 2 cents.
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Folks can of course collect, mount, and display whatever they like, and we all enjoy completing bodies of material. There's a lot of satisfaction to be had in mounting a stamp in a blank space. And counterfeits and reprints, properly identified, are are appropriate items for collection and display. However, my preference would be not to use reprints, catalog scans, and the like. The blank space is an accurate reflection of the state of the collection, and it perhaps communicates interesting or meaningful information about the value or availability of a particular item.
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I have to go along with rbpuzzles. Proofs are acceptable placeholders, when properly annotated:
But when only fakes are available, I prefer a blank space:
In my humble opinion, Fakes, Facsimilies, and Forgeries belong in their own special area of a collection:
Obviously you can do as you wish with your collection, but on more than one occasion I have been approached by an heir with an unrealistic expectation because the original collector peppered his (or her) collection with undocumented fakes, facsimilies, and forgeries. If you don't care what kind of mess you may leave for your heirs, knock yourself out. If you do care, you may want to be a bit prudent and properly document when you are using a proof or a fake for a placeholder.
Lars
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Modern printer made facsimiles are worthless. The more you have in your collection the more worthless it becomes. Knowledgeable buyers will spot them raise their eyebrows and walk on. Dealers who sell them should be black-balled.
Howdy Richard! I'm guessing you made that decision after you started collecting Spain.
Probably the reason you stopped collecting it. With Denmark and Sweden you only have to worry about getting less than 10 stamps each.
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09:13:15pm
" ... Modern printer made facsimiles are worthless ..."
To you and many others, but to some they provide something to put in their album until lightning strikes twice.
Value is in the eye of the beholder and not everyone cares what a buyer in the distant future may think. Especially when the collection is going to be left behind, you know, a "Closed Album".
I feel that the value oriented attitude some exhibit is one of the intolerance problems that beset the hobby. Some people collect stamps for the history and beauty of well designed stamps. Some are enthralled with some popular topic and finding a facsimile of the three Zeppelins to add to their early lighter than air vehicles topic satisfies their needs..
They may be just as underwhelmed with the attitude of collector/investers who will pay a small fortune for some scuffed, close cut, cancelled, high valued stamp relic as some other collectors are with a facsimile that fills a space and satisfies the needs of the owner.
Broad brush all-inclusive statements to the contrary are elitist and factually suspect.
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I have a few (well more than a few) holes in my collections, and I have to admit they will never get filled without miracles..and unfortunately I don't believe in miracles.
Either the material is too expensive, or too rare, and in such high demand that bidding wars price it out of my league. I keep hoping, but alas, without much success.
Like all collectors (I assume all do), I hate these empty spots in my albums. So as of late, I have started to look at modern facsimiles to fill in the gaps. I duly note it when I put a facsimile (or a counterfeit) on my pages, and I have even thought of marking the back of the stamp with indelible ink to make sure it does not eventually end up on the market as genuine, but I am not sure what I should use without it bleeding through to the front.
There are no guidelines for pricing modern facsimiles, however I noticed that listed prices often seem to be associated to the values of the original stamps. This I truly do not understand.
Some time ago I discussed Yemen and possible counterfeits or authentic copies of my missing #1-#3. A very respected high quality dealer has the 3 stamps as facsimiles on sale (duly marked on the back), and I am maybe interested. So the question I have is: What would you consider a reasonable price for such material? Or, since I am asking an opinion, what would you pay, in such a situation? And I know about market forces etc...but sincerely, what would you pay for ANY stamp that is a modern facsimile?
Here are (from the sellers listed material on ebay) the Yemen 3 stamps I am looking at. But the subject of this post is generic, and I post these here as an illustration. What would be your guideline for any stamp?
rrr..
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12:38:08pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
25 cents
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Approvals
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
And a side question: are these the facsimiles of genuine or counterfeit Yemen stamps?
rrr...
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re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
If its a well made facsimile, say one that includes engraving and perfs I would throw a few bucks.
But if its something that looks like it was made on a home printer I would not touch.
I would rather copy an image and print it myself, been there done that.
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12:48:48pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
"They list at $12"
You asked what would I expect to pay. 25 cents it is, unless the "listing price" is based on a catalog value, then my buying price would be based on the catalog value, but never full price.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
30 Sep 2015
12:52:39pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
I'd pay nothing. If I wanted a fake in my album, I'd just cut out an old image from a color catalog or simply print one myself. I have a lot of holes in my collection, and some badly damaged "originals" filling some, but no fakes pretending to be something that are not.
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Approvals
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
But why would the listed price of a facsimile be related to the value of the original stamp?
rrr...
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12:54:26pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
"I have a lot of holes in my collection"
If you do that, you'll wind up with alot of holes in your catalogs too!
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
30 Sep 2015
12:56:19pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
But they would equal the number of holes in my head.
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12:56:56pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
Ralph, many reprints (officially sanctioned) are little more than facsimiles. El Salvador is a prime example of that with the Seebeck reprints. Scott does footnote many of them, but mostly they are of minimal value.
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re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
I have used cutouts of illustrations from auction catalogs- many of them look surprisingly good in a black mount and far better than having an empty space.
Few of the wares offered as 'reproductions' on Ebay meet my standards. One seller I tried sent me some Washing-Franklin blue paper fakes that were laughable. They were tinted a pronounced bluish tone- the real blue papers are more gray than blue. Also they were larger than the originals and would not fit in the album spaces.
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02:14:10pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
Nelson, you are right. Counterfeits have their own place. Some are worth more than the original stamp.
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re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
John Sheffield Philatelist Ltd. (Canada) just sold a reprint of Australia Sanabria 1 for $30 Canadian. The genuine article is very rare, although it comes up for auction occasionally. Copies with selvedge and in good condition go for $5,000 to $11,000.
Here's mine, a reprint:
I think I paid a dollar for this. I certainly wouldn't pay $30, Canadian or U.S.!
The original is on watermarked paper. Reprints are not.
Ed Foster
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03:47:52pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
I'm with Bobby on this,
No offense to anyone regarding their collecting interests but to me, facsimiles are just pictures. They hold no value and I would rather have a hole in the collection than a facsimile.
-Ernie
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re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
I've accepted the fact that I will wind up with a certain number of empty spaces in my collection, but I made sure I chose areas to collect where that would be at a minimum. I will not add known fakes, forgeries, or facsimiles to my albums. I would rather have a badly damaged, but genuine, stamp to fill a hole if it's something I would not otherwise be able to afford. There are other alternatives as well, but may be not be available in all collecting areas. Things like proofs, or official reprints, would be more acceptable IMHO than facsimiles. Just my 2 cents.
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11:03:09pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
Folks can of course collect, mount, and display whatever they like, and we all enjoy completing bodies of material. There's a lot of satisfaction to be had in mounting a stamp in a blank space. And counterfeits and reprints, properly identified, are are appropriate items for collection and display. However, my preference would be not to use reprints, catalog scans, and the like. The blank space is an accurate reflection of the state of the collection, and it perhaps communicates interesting or meaningful information about the value or availability of a particular item.
Login to Like
this post
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
I have to go along with rbpuzzles. Proofs are acceptable placeholders, when properly annotated:
But when only fakes are available, I prefer a blank space:
In my humble opinion, Fakes, Facsimilies, and Forgeries belong in their own special area of a collection:
Obviously you can do as you wish with your collection, but on more than one occasion I have been approached by an heir with an unrealistic expectation because the original collector peppered his (or her) collection with undocumented fakes, facsimilies, and forgeries. If you don't care what kind of mess you may leave for your heirs, knock yourself out. If you do care, you may want to be a bit prudent and properly document when you are using a proof or a fake for a placeholder.
Lars
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re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
Modern printer made facsimiles are worthless. The more you have in your collection the more worthless it becomes. Knowledgeable buyers will spot them raise their eyebrows and walk on. Dealers who sell them should be black-balled.
Howdy Richard! I'm guessing you made that decision after you started collecting Spain.
Probably the reason you stopped collecting it. With Denmark and Sweden you only have to worry about getting less than 10 stamps each.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Oct 2015
09:13:15pm
re: What would YOU expect to pay for modern Facsimiles?
" ... Modern printer made facsimiles are worthless ..."
To you and many others, but to some they provide something to put in their album until lightning strikes twice.
Value is in the eye of the beholder and not everyone cares what a buyer in the distant future may think. Especially when the collection is going to be left behind, you know, a "Closed Album".
I feel that the value oriented attitude some exhibit is one of the intolerance problems that beset the hobby. Some people collect stamps for the history and beauty of well designed stamps. Some are enthralled with some popular topic and finding a facsimile of the three Zeppelins to add to their early lighter than air vehicles topic satisfies their needs..
They may be just as underwhelmed with the attitude of collector/investers who will pay a small fortune for some scuffed, close cut, cancelled, high valued stamp relic as some other collectors are with a facsimile that fills a space and satisfies the needs of the owner.
Broad brush all-inclusive statements to the contrary are elitist and factually suspect.
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