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Europe/Other : Poland 1919 MI 36

 

Author
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patcoate

28 Sep 2015
12:57:48pm
Hello --- I'm new here and new to philately, but can someone please tell me why this stamp is so rare? I know someone here knows! Thank you -- Image Not FoundHappy

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nl1947

28 Sep 2015
02:21:41pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

That particular one does not look so rare......

Image Not Found...Image Not Found

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patcoate

28 Sep 2015
02:39:59pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Well, I mean the original, real stamp itself. I just posted a photo I found on eBay. But I've seen this stamp a lot, and wonder why it is so rare. Is there some historical significance I am missing?

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Guthrum
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28 Sep 2015
05:05:27pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

My catalogue has this stamp issued on January 10th 1919. That would be only nine weeks into the existence of the new republic independent of three years of German and Austro-Hungarian military occupation, but still at war with Russia. The new boundaries of Poland would be carved out of various outlying areas during 1919, causing dismay to both Germany and Russia (both of whom would remember that twenty years later).

In the midst of all this some form of postal service denoting the new nation had to be set up rapidly, and among the half-dozen or so original designs hastily put out, the "Warsaw Citizens' Post" used overprints on earlier issues of Germany and Austria-Hungary, created at Warsaw, Lublin, Krakow and other places. The wide variation in rarity (judging by comparative catalogue prices) suggests that some stamps were printed, distributed and used rather more efficiently than others.

One might also speculate that in times of political upheaval it was prudent for those with money to invest in and squirrel away certain stamps as a hedge against possible inflation or other unforeseeable events. This certainly happened in World War Two.

All this might account (along with more obvious reasons such as small print runs) for some of these early Polish stamps becoming extremely expensive. Your 25 halerzy stamp is the second most 'valuable' in that set - there is a 10 korona stamp which was (in 1977) six times more expensive.

Although it is not difficult to research the political history of a stamp-issuing entity, it is seldom easy to link that to postal services, the issue of stamps, and the subsequent trajectory of any given set.

This is an 'off the top of my head' reply and I have made no attempt to research the matter more deeply than the notes in my Stanley Gibbons catalogue. There may be others who know more, or who can add to or correct anything I've said above.

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patcoate

28 Sep 2015
05:38:09pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Wow; many thanks! That answers my question. I love this site and the discussion boards -- I am learning so much. Thanks again.

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patcoate

28 Sep 2015
05:44:04pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Bobby -- I have just gotten into philately, and have been trying to cram in a lot research. I saw one stamp auction in which one of these sold for $12,000, and another where it said it had a catalogue value of $7,500. I guess the attractive portrait, color and 'ray effect' design caught my eye initially. But, as I say, I am very new to this and was just curious.

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nl1947

28 Sep 2015
05:56:44pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

My listing notes that 1300 of this value was issued
1300 of the 90h
Of the 10K mentioned there were 550
So all 3 are definitely in the rare category

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patcoate

28 Sep 2015
06:16:45pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Thanks for the good info, NL.

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Guthrum
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29 Sep 2015
04:44:13pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Further to Nelson's comment "That particular one does not look so rare" - and bearing in mind some of his major contributions to this website - a couple of things occur to me which should have occurred to me rather sooner:

1. The two portraits of Emperor Charles I (and indeed last) do not really look much alike - the left-hand moustache appears distinctly trimmed compared to the right.

2. The diamond-shaped pattern on the left-hand overprint does not look at all like the overprint illustrated in my catalogue, which is really more of an ornate flourish than a diamond.

So is the right-hand illustration not a modern reprint? And does my catalogue show just one of possibly several styles of overprint? Enquiring minds want to know!

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patcoate

29 Sep 2015
05:49:21pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

I don't know -- lol. I'm a raw, curious newbie. I posted the stamp on the left, which photo was on eBay. I now understand it is a fake? Another member kindly posted the one on the right, which is the real one, I think. It certainly looks a lot better -- sharper. I was just curious about the stamp itself, because I became kind of obsessed with it. One site stated that only one out of a hundred of these offered for sale is genuine, and I kept seeing it on 'Rare Stamp' lists. Also, I fell a little in love with the portrait. (Everybody say, "Awwwwwwww ...").

But I appreciate so much all the input. You guys are extremely knowledgeable. This is a GREAT reference resource; one of the best I've found so far, in fact.

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Guthrum
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29 Sep 2015
06:04:47pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Nelson ('nl') is your man for forgeries - he may well have a take on this. Personally I don't have much to do with the sort of stamps that are worth forging - both the forgeries and the originals would be beyond my purse!

As someone new to the hobby, you might well enjoy some of the features in our "articles" section - there's a lot about forgeries there from Nelson, as well as much else besides.

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nl1947

29 Sep 2015
06:09:38pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Guthrum - good observation

The overprint appears to come in several varieties.

Below the genuine on the left - Fake on the right

Image Not Found..Image Not Found

Image Not Found..Image Not Found

For these I do not have the physical stamps & the picture (poor quality) originates from an expert book on the subject of forgeries.

The one I posted is an unknown & may well be a more modern reprint.
I had intended to expand more on the items but got sidetracked & did not get back to it.
An error I should have fixed.
The width & inclination of the letters of the original post does not match anything in my database & it is an outright fake by all accounts.

Others from that period - both genuine & fairly common.
Image Not Found..Image Not Found

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patcoate

29 Sep 2015
09:22:49pm
re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Thanks, Guthrum and Nelson -- I am a research nut, and I enjoy and appreciate all and any info. I will check out those articles straightaway, as well.

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Author/Postings
patcoate

28 Sep 2015
12:57:48pm

Hello --- I'm new here and new to philately, but can someone please tell me why this stamp is so rare? I know someone here knows! Thank you -- Image Not FoundHappy

Like
Login to Like
this post
nl1947

28 Sep 2015
02:21:41pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

That particular one does not look so rare......

Image Not Found...Image Not Found

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
patcoate

28 Sep 2015
02:39:59pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Well, I mean the original, real stamp itself. I just posted a photo I found on eBay. But I've seen this stamp a lot, and wonder why it is so rare. Is there some historical significance I am missing?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Guthrum

28 Sep 2015
05:05:27pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

My catalogue has this stamp issued on January 10th 1919. That would be only nine weeks into the existence of the new republic independent of three years of German and Austro-Hungarian military occupation, but still at war with Russia. The new boundaries of Poland would be carved out of various outlying areas during 1919, causing dismay to both Germany and Russia (both of whom would remember that twenty years later).

In the midst of all this some form of postal service denoting the new nation had to be set up rapidly, and among the half-dozen or so original designs hastily put out, the "Warsaw Citizens' Post" used overprints on earlier issues of Germany and Austria-Hungary, created at Warsaw, Lublin, Krakow and other places. The wide variation in rarity (judging by comparative catalogue prices) suggests that some stamps were printed, distributed and used rather more efficiently than others.

One might also speculate that in times of political upheaval it was prudent for those with money to invest in and squirrel away certain stamps as a hedge against possible inflation or other unforeseeable events. This certainly happened in World War Two.

All this might account (along with more obvious reasons such as small print runs) for some of these early Polish stamps becoming extremely expensive. Your 25 halerzy stamp is the second most 'valuable' in that set - there is a 10 korona stamp which was (in 1977) six times more expensive.

Although it is not difficult to research the political history of a stamp-issuing entity, it is seldom easy to link that to postal services, the issue of stamps, and the subsequent trajectory of any given set.

This is an 'off the top of my head' reply and I have made no attempt to research the matter more deeply than the notes in my Stanley Gibbons catalogue. There may be others who know more, or who can add to or correct anything I've said above.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
patcoate

28 Sep 2015
05:38:09pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Wow; many thanks! That answers my question. I love this site and the discussion boards -- I am learning so much. Thanks again.

Like
Login to Like
this post
patcoate

28 Sep 2015
05:44:04pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Bobby -- I have just gotten into philately, and have been trying to cram in a lot research. I saw one stamp auction in which one of these sold for $12,000, and another where it said it had a catalogue value of $7,500. I guess the attractive portrait, color and 'ray effect' design caught my eye initially. But, as I say, I am very new to this and was just curious.

Like
Login to Like
this post
nl1947

28 Sep 2015
05:56:44pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

My listing notes that 1300 of this value was issued
1300 of the 90h
Of the 10K mentioned there were 550
So all 3 are definitely in the rare category

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
patcoate

28 Sep 2015
06:16:45pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Thanks for the good info, NL.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Guthrum

29 Sep 2015
04:44:13pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Further to Nelson's comment "That particular one does not look so rare" - and bearing in mind some of his major contributions to this website - a couple of things occur to me which should have occurred to me rather sooner:

1. The two portraits of Emperor Charles I (and indeed last) do not really look much alike - the left-hand moustache appears distinctly trimmed compared to the right.

2. The diamond-shaped pattern on the left-hand overprint does not look at all like the overprint illustrated in my catalogue, which is really more of an ornate flourish than a diamond.

So is the right-hand illustration not a modern reprint? And does my catalogue show just one of possibly several styles of overprint? Enquiring minds want to know!

Like
Login to Like
this post
patcoate

29 Sep 2015
05:49:21pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

I don't know -- lol. I'm a raw, curious newbie. I posted the stamp on the left, which photo was on eBay. I now understand it is a fake? Another member kindly posted the one on the right, which is the real one, I think. It certainly looks a lot better -- sharper. I was just curious about the stamp itself, because I became kind of obsessed with it. One site stated that only one out of a hundred of these offered for sale is genuine, and I kept seeing it on 'Rare Stamp' lists. Also, I fell a little in love with the portrait. (Everybody say, "Awwwwwwww ...").

But I appreciate so much all the input. You guys are extremely knowledgeable. This is a GREAT reference resource; one of the best I've found so far, in fact.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Guthrum

29 Sep 2015
06:04:47pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Nelson ('nl') is your man for forgeries - he may well have a take on this. Personally I don't have much to do with the sort of stamps that are worth forging - both the forgeries and the originals would be beyond my purse!

As someone new to the hobby, you might well enjoy some of the features in our "articles" section - there's a lot about forgeries there from Nelson, as well as much else besides.

Like
Login to Like
this post
nl1947

29 Sep 2015
06:09:38pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Guthrum - good observation

The overprint appears to come in several varieties.

Below the genuine on the left - Fake on the right

Image Not Found..Image Not Found

Image Not Found..Image Not Found

For these I do not have the physical stamps & the picture (poor quality) originates from an expert book on the subject of forgeries.

The one I posted is an unknown & may well be a more modern reprint.
I had intended to expand more on the items but got sidetracked & did not get back to it.
An error I should have fixed.
The width & inclination of the letters of the original post does not match anything in my database & it is an outright fake by all accounts.

Others from that period - both genuine & fairly common.
Image Not Found..Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
patcoate

29 Sep 2015
09:22:49pm

re: Poland 1919 MI 36

Thanks, Guthrum and Nelson -- I am a research nut, and I enjoy and appreciate all and any info. I will check out those articles straightaway, as well.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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