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Europe/Other : Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

 

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Guthrum
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05 Sep 2015
07:05:21pm
In what I presume was an attempt to rustle up some funds for the new Georgiev 'Fatherland Front' regime, installed the previous September following the arrival of the Red Army, 3 sets of overprinted stamps were issued in 3 values in March 1945, by way of using up stocks of definitive stamps of the late King Boris.

The Stanley Gibbons catalogue translates the three savings campaign slogans as "Collect All Rags", "Collect Old Iron" and "Collect Waste Paper", and they are overprinted in Cyrillic on the 1, 2 and 4 leva stamps. Thus there are 9 basic stamps.

Or there should be, because at this point it gets rather more complicated, perforation-wise. Gibbons tries to simplify it by listing the basic P13 stamps, only there are actually not 9, but 7 (two of the 2 leva stamps not used), together with a variety of P11½, only there are again not 9 but 6 (two of the 1 leu and one of the 4 leva not used).

Are you with me so far? (Thought not! But I'll press on.) Of the 18 theoretically possible stamps, then (9 of each perforation), Gibbons lists only 13 as actually existing. I have ten of them, but when I speak to dealers about the other three they become dubious, indeed dismissive, about the whole Gibbons listing and can help no further. It's true that some of these stamps have decidedly rough perforations, but my question is (at last...) what do other catalogues, Scott or Michel, make of these stamps? Are their lists different?

I did try to upload a scan of my album page, but the quality was so poor that I decided not to post. And annoyingly I seem to have a further perforation variety on one stamp ("Rags", 2 leva) which is P11 x 10½, or so I stoutly maintain.

Some of you fellows with 300,000+ stamps must have these, no? Any clarification would be gratefully received.

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meostamps
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05 Sep 2015
07:47:28pm
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Ian, my 2008 Scotts lists 3 values for each overprint, a total of 9. No notes except for an English version of the overprint.

Here is a link to them in Antonius-Ra (mitch ward's) collection

http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/bulgaria/bulgaria24.jpg


Click once on the page for a larger image.

Mike in NC / meostamps

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Guthrum
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06 Sep 2015
04:39:25am
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

So, no perforation varieties for Scott, then. (Does that mean Gibbons is rather more advanced?) Anyone have the Michel catalogue?

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georgi2201
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06 Sep 2015
04:43:50am
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

My Bulgarian catalogue lists nine stamps, too. I don't have any of the "big-brand" catalogues like Scott or SG, but a specialized one for Bulgaria issued by the Philatelic Union here. I'm afraid I won't be of help.


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nl1947

06 Sep 2015
07:29:04am
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Colnect shows all 18 varieties with graphics & listings from Michel

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scb
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Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!

06 Sep 2015
09:26:59am
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Yep, 18 minor numbers in Michel. Here are the perfs as listed on Michel:

"Collect All Rags"
1L - Comb 13 or line 11½
2L - Line 11½, Line 10 3/4, or Line 11½ x10 3/4
4L - Comb 13

"Collect Old Iron"
1L - Comb 13
2L - Line 11½, Line 10 3/4, or Line 11½ x10 3/4
4L - Comb 13 or Line 11½

"Collect Waste Paper"
1L - Comb 13 or line 11½
2L - Line 11½ or Line 10 3/4
4L - Comb 13 or Line 11½


Four of these are market with italics, meaning that their catalog value (5-25€ for used, 10-40€ for mint) is very rough estimate.

-k-

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Guthrum
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06 Sep 2015
01:31:53pm
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Thanks Nelson (for the link) and Keijo (for the list).

The results are now in and (for those of you who have been following this thread with bated breath) are as follows:

Scott: 9 - a very basic score: presumably there is a Scott specialised Bulgarian catalogue somewhere that can do better.

Gibbons: 13 - as detailed in my original post.

Michel: 18 - 13 in the two perforations allowed by Gibbons, plus an entirely new perforation (10¾) for all three of the 2 leva value, plus a mixed perf for two of the 2 leva values, as shown in Keijo's list.

All done? Well, no actually, since Gibbons' basic 13 and Michel's basic 13 differ in two respects. Michel allows a perf 11½ for the 1 leu "paper" (which Gibbons does not), while Gibbons allows a perf 13 for the 2 leva "iron" (which Michel does not).

We'll give Gibbons the benefit of the doubt and say that their latest specialised catalogue for Bulgaria probably gives all 18 stamps, and may even have come to an agreement with Michel over the two with which it conflicts.

Meanwhile, for this collector with his 10 stamps the wants list has just jumped from 3 to 8. You can see why dealers want no part of this sort of thing!

Thanks again for your help, gentlemen.

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malcolm197

30 Sep 2015
10:30:55am
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

With apologies to Monty Python

"My Brain Hurts"

Malcolm

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Rhinelander
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30 Sep 2015
11:33:32pm
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

This is truly a fun thread, which made me go back to my Bulgaria collection.

The basic stamps are printed in sheets of 2 x 9 x 10, which was then cut into two sheets of 9 x 10. Interestingly, and the thread made me go to my books to read up on the issue once more, two different overprints were used for the left and right sheets so that gutter pairs exist of two stamps with different overprints. I don't have any of those, but these should be neat. I do have some margin copies with overprints, these are also cool but obviously a lot more common:

Image Not Found

Based on this tread, I will have to double-check and perhaps reorganize my stamps. I always collected this issue according to perf. variety (following Michel) but this was an easy 20 years ago. Probably time to revisit. It appears the illusive one is the 10 3/4 line perf which only exists for the 2L red stamp (on two or all sides, anything 10 3/4 is good). All the rest appear to be common and just a question of effort to get. The two stamps I show are both L 11 1/2.


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Rhinelander
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01 Oct 2015
08:20:46am
re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Ok. I found a picture of a gutter pair in a specialized reference; it was pictured because it shows the additional variety of a missing perforation.

Image Not Found

Legitimate partial (and complete) imperforated varieties exists for many Bulgarian issues and are typically not supreme rarities. It appears they just had problems with their line perfing machine and the perforation knife missed a strike once in while. So one has to be careful not to reject such stamps out of hand as "perfs cut off." Of course one has to make sure that the size is right. I bought this one from another member in our auction a few years ago:

Image Not Found

Of course, the rust spots from a paper clip are very annoying. Still, a good example of a a partially imperforated.

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Guthrum

05 Sep 2015
07:05:21pm

In what I presume was an attempt to rustle up some funds for the new Georgiev 'Fatherland Front' regime, installed the previous September following the arrival of the Red Army, 3 sets of overprinted stamps were issued in 3 values in March 1945, by way of using up stocks of definitive stamps of the late King Boris.

The Stanley Gibbons catalogue translates the three savings campaign slogans as "Collect All Rags", "Collect Old Iron" and "Collect Waste Paper", and they are overprinted in Cyrillic on the 1, 2 and 4 leva stamps. Thus there are 9 basic stamps.

Or there should be, because at this point it gets rather more complicated, perforation-wise. Gibbons tries to simplify it by listing the basic P13 stamps, only there are actually not 9, but 7 (two of the 2 leva stamps not used), together with a variety of P11½, only there are again not 9 but 6 (two of the 1 leu and one of the 4 leva not used).

Are you with me so far? (Thought not! But I'll press on.) Of the 18 theoretically possible stamps, then (9 of each perforation), Gibbons lists only 13 as actually existing. I have ten of them, but when I speak to dealers about the other three they become dubious, indeed dismissive, about the whole Gibbons listing and can help no further. It's true that some of these stamps have decidedly rough perforations, but my question is (at last...) what do other catalogues, Scott or Michel, make of these stamps? Are their lists different?

I did try to upload a scan of my album page, but the quality was so poor that I decided not to post. And annoyingly I seem to have a further perforation variety on one stamp ("Rags", 2 leva) which is P11 x 10½, or so I stoutly maintain.

Some of you fellows with 300,000+ stamps must have these, no? Any clarification would be gratefully received.

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meostamps

05 Sep 2015
07:47:28pm

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Ian, my 2008 Scotts lists 3 values for each overprint, a total of 9. No notes except for an English version of the overprint.

Here is a link to them in Antonius-Ra (mitch ward's) collection

http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/bulgaria/bulgaria24.jpg


Click once on the page for a larger image.

Mike in NC / meostamps

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Guthrum

06 Sep 2015
04:39:25am

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

So, no perforation varieties for Scott, then. (Does that mean Gibbons is rather more advanced?) Anyone have the Michel catalogue?

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georgi2201

06 Sep 2015
04:43:50am

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

My Bulgarian catalogue lists nine stamps, too. I don't have any of the "big-brand" catalogues like Scott or SG, but a specialized one for Bulgaria issued by the Philatelic Union here. I'm afraid I won't be of help.


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nl1947

06 Sep 2015
07:29:04am

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Colnect shows all 18 varieties with graphics & listings from Michel

Like
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this post
Members Picture
scb

Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!
06 Sep 2015
09:26:59am

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Yep, 18 minor numbers in Michel. Here are the perfs as listed on Michel:

"Collect All Rags"
1L - Comb 13 or line 11½
2L - Line 11½, Line 10 3/4, or Line 11½ x10 3/4
4L - Comb 13

"Collect Old Iron"
1L - Comb 13
2L - Line 11½, Line 10 3/4, or Line 11½ x10 3/4
4L - Comb 13 or Line 11½

"Collect Waste Paper"
1L - Comb 13 or line 11½
2L - Line 11½ or Line 10 3/4
4L - Comb 13 or Line 11½


Four of these are market with italics, meaning that their catalog value (5-25€ for used, 10-40€ for mint) is very rough estimate.

-k-

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Guthrum

06 Sep 2015
01:31:53pm

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Thanks Nelson (for the link) and Keijo (for the list).

The results are now in and (for those of you who have been following this thread with bated breath) are as follows:

Scott: 9 - a very basic score: presumably there is a Scott specialised Bulgarian catalogue somewhere that can do better.

Gibbons: 13 - as detailed in my original post.

Michel: 18 - 13 in the two perforations allowed by Gibbons, plus an entirely new perforation (10¾) for all three of the 2 leva value, plus a mixed perf for two of the 2 leva values, as shown in Keijo's list.

All done? Well, no actually, since Gibbons' basic 13 and Michel's basic 13 differ in two respects. Michel allows a perf 11½ for the 1 leu "paper" (which Gibbons does not), while Gibbons allows a perf 13 for the 2 leva "iron" (which Michel does not).

We'll give Gibbons the benefit of the doubt and say that their latest specialised catalogue for Bulgaria probably gives all 18 stamps, and may even have come to an agreement with Michel over the two with which it conflicts.

Meanwhile, for this collector with his 10 stamps the wants list has just jumped from 3 to 8. You can see why dealers want no part of this sort of thing!

Thanks again for your help, gentlemen.

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malcolm197

30 Sep 2015
10:30:55am

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

With apologies to Monty Python

"My Brain Hurts"

Malcolm

Like
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this post
Members Picture
Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
30 Sep 2015
11:33:32pm

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

This is truly a fun thread, which made me go back to my Bulgaria collection.

The basic stamps are printed in sheets of 2 x 9 x 10, which was then cut into two sheets of 9 x 10. Interestingly, and the thread made me go to my books to read up on the issue once more, two different overprints were used for the left and right sheets so that gutter pairs exist of two stamps with different overprints. I don't have any of those, but these should be neat. I do have some margin copies with overprints, these are also cool but obviously a lot more common:

Image Not Found

Based on this tread, I will have to double-check and perhaps reorganize my stamps. I always collected this issue according to perf. variety (following Michel) but this was an easy 20 years ago. Probably time to revisit. It appears the illusive one is the 10 3/4 line perf which only exists for the 2L red stamp (on two or all sides, anything 10 3/4 is good). All the rest appear to be common and just a question of effort to get. The two stamps I show are both L 11 1/2.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
01 Oct 2015
08:20:46am

re: Bulgarian Savings Campaign stamps, March 1945 query

Ok. I found a picture of a gutter pair in a specialized reference; it was pictured because it shows the additional variety of a missing perforation.

Image Not Found

Legitimate partial (and complete) imperforated varieties exists for many Bulgarian issues and are typically not supreme rarities. It appears they just had problems with their line perfing machine and the perforation knife missed a strike once in while. So one has to be careful not to reject such stamps out of hand as "perfs cut off." Of course one has to make sure that the size is right. I bought this one from another member in our auction a few years ago:

Image Not Found

Of course, the rust spots from a paper clip are very annoying. Still, a good example of a a partially imperforated.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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