Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
This is the first post
of the ‘new’ thread with a modified title to include postmarks.Below is a rather washed out pair of 20 cent on 30 cent 1891 provisional overprints, with two strikes of a Thursday Island cancellation. The numerals ‘148’ in four concentric rings of dots in an oval pattern, is a Webb Type Bi postmark.
Thursday Island is in the Torres Strait, some 39 kilometres north of Cape York Peninsula, Queensland, Australia.
This marking is attributed to mail arriving on Thursday Island, normally in transit elsewhere; possibly New Zealand.
Although condition is an issue, I felt that the chances of finding another pair with this postmark was very slim, particularly as it is not often found on Hong Kong adhesives.
..............................
The diamond shaped blue lozenge is a company security marking, seemingly applied in fugitive ink which has run; the fugitive green ink used to print the adhesives has washed out too.
EDIT
The following information has been put in this post, in response to a request from JEREMY HODES of http://queenslandstampnumerals.blogspot.co.uk/ who requested measurements of the '148' numerals on the cancellation.
I have tried posting on his blog with no success, so in the hope that he reviews this thread (he has linked to it in his blog) he will find the answer to that question......
Jeremy, my apologies for not responding to your question before now. Only the numerals '1' and '4' can be measured with any degree of accuracy, and even then I am not sure these have been struck fully. Anyway, they measure 5 mm and 5.5 mm respectively.
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For those that collect Kong Kong, I would like to bring to your attention the following thread: New website dedicated to forgeries
This is pertinent to collectors of overprints and postmarks in particular, as there is a forgery operation based in Canada that is currently selling on eBay.
http://tinyurl.com/osyc5qy
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Mr Manyk is of course flaunting the eBay rules regarding forgeries, in that these copies should be marked as such on the back. Despite him being reported in the past, eBay have done nothing as usual.
And today another raft of forgeries has been listed. At the rate he lists (and probably creates them) the market will be flooded in the future.
This could have a severe effect on sellers of genuine material because as the word gets around of this forger's work, the better informed buyer will be reluctant to take any chances.
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Here's a pair of 1912-1921 Multiple Crown CA 6 cent Brown-orange, with a rather large boxed multi lingual 'STEAMER' marking.
There is another word after steamer within the box that I can't make out and what appears to be one or more characters before it.
I haven't seen this one before and know nothing about it.
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I happened to spot these two stamps in a small mixed lot, at the opposite ends of a stock card. I thought they may be connected in some way and used the actual auction scan to cut and paste the two together.
And lo and behold; two stamps showing partial strikes of Nederland Indie 'Tandjong-Priok' ship markings. I didn't have a single example in my collection; and they married up.....
Or so I thought:
According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!
So the two of them are back 'on the shelf'. Nice little find though, even if I do say so myself.
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Just purchased the following unusual cancels on HK stamps
B127 is Moulmein Burma
Martinique in the Caribbean
Cairo Egypt
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OMG, wonderful! Was this on the Bay?
Peter
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I'd be very surprised if he did. He has connections you know; I've seen his mugshot on the back of a HK Study Circle bulletin.
Marvellous additions by the way. I personally have not seen any one of these before, not even in an auction catalogue.
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WillLack
Those are great cancels. I have never seen any Hong Kong stamps cancelled in those places before either. Thanks for sharing with us.
Linus
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really fabulous pieces - put a dent in my stamp spending for the next 4 months or so.... what I really want now is a Malacca cancel, an Aden cancel and maybe a Malta and Gibralter still to find...
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WillLack,
Your Cairo, Egypt cancel with Cook's Tourist Service is from Thomas Cook and Sons, a pioneer in the package tours business out of England that conducted tours around the world. They were so successful running tours up and down the Nile River that they had their own fleet of steamships hauling passengers, tourists, and mail. I have seen this cancel before on Ebay listings. There is lots of information about them on the internet via Google.
I was recently reading about Thomas Cook as I researched the Hong Kong revenue stamp below from my own collection.
Linus
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I found this block amongst a dealers stock years ago and noticed the bottom left hand stamp had a broken 'W' of 'Wedding'. From 1981, this is SG399 (Scott #373), from a set of three.
I wasn't sure if this was a constant variety or just a one off, so just put it aside:
Some time later I found this one:
Then last week I saw an identical marginal block of 8 listed on eBay, with the same variety. So it would seem this is constant but unlisted.
I checked out my newly arrived Yang catalogue, as they tend to list the minor printing varieties, only to find that they have clagged up this particular issue. They have omitted the set completely. It was listed in the previous catalogue but the new one jumps from C156 to C160.
Quelle suprise! I had hoped that Yang might have made a better job of this new catalogue.
Anyway, although only a minor variety (some might say 'a flyspeck'), this is perhaps worth looking out for, as it is a common stamp. It may be listed by somebody...eventually.
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Ningpo: You wrote:
>Or so I thought:
>According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!
My experience is that these cancels of Netherlands Indies (called short bar cancels) are always over 25mm in diameter. And, indeed, aren't the stamps in the picture above more than 22mm high? The 20mm in Yang must be wrong.
Jan
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Jan,
You are absolutely right. It didn't even dawn on me that 20mm couldn't possibly be correct; these definitives are around 24mm in height, including perfs. So the CDS would have to be that diameter at minimum.
So perhaps the two I found are part of the same strike after all. I should know better than to take Yang's description as gospel.
Thank you for pointing this out. You get the cigar instead. 
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Willack posted a newly acquired strike of the Thomas Cook - Cairo CDS. Another turned up on eBay a week or so ago. This one is on a large piece with two strikes. Interesting recipient! Perhaps the Duke was on a 'grand tour' of the far east:
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A new variety addition: Sg134c 'lightning conductor' on chapel:
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New additions to my collection of arrival marking on HK
San Francisco cogwheel
Triest, where Austria Lloyd shipping line had its base
Russian Post office Shanghai
Not technically an arrival cancel- Jenny & Co, Manila - but the firm chop is previously unrecorded on HK adhesives - see Rod Sell's site on security markings etc
http://rodsell.com/hksmsic/hksmsic.html
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WillLack,
Those are all nice cancels, thanks for scanning and sharing.
Below is a block of 3 from my collection. Between the two HONG-KONG 19 JUL 41 SHEUNG.WAN cancels is a "HONOLULU HAWAII AUG 16 1941 REGISTERED" cancel. I only wish it was a complete block of 4, but at least it is still together, as is.
Linus
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Wimbledon - sadly did not win this on ebay... ugh
another Wimbledon
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An unusual location - (Papua) New Guinea
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Direction marking (Cheribon) Cirebon in West Java Dutch East Indies - Indonesia went on Ebay for £285 sadly not to me - previously unrecorded...
For more info on Forwarding Markings http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/001_RedirectionMarkings_Jones/@RM_Jones.html
Another Ebay one I missed out on Port Dickson - Malaya - although now a little suspicious as the cancel is very clean and almost too crisp
Interesting as a chop applied to an envelop - not really a forwarding agents mark, but a nice piece alongside the Tientsin cancel..
For more info on Forwarding agents marks
http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/013-Forwrding-Agents-PO/Forwarding-Agents-List-May.pdf
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almost sure that the Port Dickson cancel is a fake - blowing it up looks like an inkjet fake - and the seller has form -
look at this terrible fake
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONG-KONG-CHINA-1912-KGV-3-00-SG-114-WITH-SINGAPORE-POSTMARK-/222087748040?hash=item33b57619c8:g:44kAAOSwkx5XEPBL
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New York arrival cancel on King Edward VII
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Just seen this on ebay, any thoughts on the colour wash out, the red line under the left stamps is not consistent or straight and the paper seems extremely thin.
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Those red 'Jubilee' margin lines are quite normal for GVI definitive issues. As to the colour; unless this is a poor scan, they are very faded. Looking at the plate number lozenge, the colour has deteriorated from a dull lilac to a grey shade.
There seems to be some colour bleed (or offset) on the RH stamp too.
As for the paper; again this looks quite normal. However, the pair typically (for this 1938 issue) have toned gum. These appear though to have been left in sunlight.
In conclusion; I would avoid these.
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Here are two strikes of the Japanese Formosa postmark on KEVII adhesives. Both are probably the same date and likely to be no later than 1905.
It is thought that stamps were purchased on the island from the British Consulate.
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I would like to share some Hong Kong postmarks from my collection. For those who like Hong Kong....enjoy!
Linus
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Some nice strikes there Linus. I particularly like your straight line Amoy and Statow. You have a very good copy of the large format QV $1.50 'chestnut' revenue stamp, with a part 'Paid-All' fiscal cancellation.
I don't have a copy of that myself.This was issued in 1867. Interestingly, this was the only stamp in that series to be forged (to defraud the revenue). It was crudely printed by woodblock and perforated 10½. Yours is 15½ x 15.
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I spotted this on an auction site as a 'buy it now'. I noticed the very strange cancellation, which I have never seen before:
Here's a close-up of the CDS:
I then tried to isolate the CDS, which was very difficult due to the bottom portion merging into the dark area of the mountain.
This is what I managed to come up with:
There are no known Hong Kong postmarks with vertical bars in the inner circle, which were used in early Japanese postmarks and some British colonies (perhaps elsewhere too). So The question is, is this an unrecorded postmark type? Well, I suspect that in view of the rather squiffy date slugs, this is bogus.
I am though, rather pleased to have found it.
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Just received today, which I spotted in a small auction lot, is a barred numeral 556 postmark of CAPE COAST CASTLE, GOLD COAST. An extraordinary destination:
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wow what a find - if you ever want to sell.....
I am hoping to at some point in the next 10 years write a new book on Hong Kong Arrival Cancellations to replace the 1980 Black and white one- now that scanners and colour printing so much cheaper
Would love to receive scans of arrival markings from non traditional (ie Treaty Port) locations and would credit in the magnum opus I intend to write.
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here is an unusual Hong Kong arrival marking - Larnaca in Cyprus.....
and this is an unusual company marking - Railway Property under a Foochow DCS
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During a moment of rest from trying to sort watermarks I found these, the varieties do not seem to be noted in the Scott or SG catalogues. Does Yang mention them.
The vertical line is more noticeable visually but the scan does not come out to well.
Any thoughts?
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These sort of flaws are not listed in any catalogues.
The first 'flaw' you show, seems to be one of those endless variable fly specks that plague this issue; not only on HK but other colonies who were supplied by the same printers. Just page up to my post in this thread, showing the enlarged image of the 'lightning conductor' on chapel. Then look at the rooftop of the same turret as yours - mine looks like a TV aerial; yours looks like a radio aerial.
The second 'line' flaw, is one of many that seem to occur from time to time. Some are more extreme than others. In fact there is another post on this thread: Hong Kong: errors......(Thread Closed)
But to save looking, here it is again (to keep things nice and neat):
In that thread, I uploaded this image of what I called a 'balloon string' flaw.
There is a whole thread dedicated to these un-catalogued varieties on the 'Australian board'.
I'd imagine that none of these will achieve catalogue status until it can be proven that these are 'constant' varieties. Most we see, seem to be of a more random nature.
My own view is that the rather waxy/viscous ink on the castle vignette, contributes to their appearance.
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Thanks Ningpo, guess I'll just keep them as a curiosity and annotate the page accordingly.
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After taking the summer off from my stamp collection, it is time to dive back in, and post on the board again as my contribution to this club. I enjoy everyone's posts on here, and I learn a lot from all of you. Thank you! Perhaps others can learn a little from my lifetime accumulation of stamps and covers.
To my old pal Ningpo, this scan is for you...Ningpo, you there??
These Hong Kong stamps have the Treaty Port of Ningpo cancellations. Ningpo was about 100 miles south of Shanghai, China, 20 miles inland from the coast on a short navigable river opposite the island of Chusan. Ningpo was one of the 5 original Treaty Ports ceded to Great Britain in 1842. When it was ceded. it was already in British hands, for Chusan was the main base of the British Fleet in the First China War, and the expeditionary force captured Ningpo in October 1841, and wintered there.
Linus
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Thanks for the mention Linus and welcome back. Nice little cluster there, including the one that's the same as my Avatar. Your's is a bit earlier though.
I did manage to pick up an N1 killer cancel, albeit incomplete. But these now go for silly money.
Hope you have been saving up your coppers over the summer months You might just need them.
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I have yet to find the N1 killer, as they seem to be difficult to locate, but I will keep hunting. I am sure a dealer will ask quite a lot for one.
Here is a nice Registered Shanghai Branch Post Office cancellation on a King Edward VII pair that I acquired awhile back, for your enjoyment. 
Linus
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Below are scans from the Treaty Port of Amoy from my Hong Kong collection. The A1 and D27 were early killer cancellations from Amoy, which was another of the five original Treaty Ports opened under the Treaty of Nanking in 1842.
Linus
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Some fine strikes there Linus. The neat placement of these became ever wayward as time progressed.
Getting these complete (or at least, near as damn it), is always a challenge.
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I did not win this on a recent ebay auction but its one I really wanted I think it went for £141 - I was stuck in traffic late on the way home so missed the end and would gone a bit higher than that,
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This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary
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How about this to set your pulses racing
and
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"This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary"
If this is from Stanley, you wouldn't have found this in Webb. I would have to check this out by looking at Ted Prouds book.
Stanley had an agency in a police post in the 20's, but I don't think any postmarks have been recorded earlier than 1930 (according to Webb).
In my view, a handstamp of this type would have been made for a much larger post office existing in Victorian times. I don't think any of those tiny branch offices would have warranted such a handstamp (or any for that matter), until postal volumes reached the levels of around the 1910/1920's era; which even then were fairly low.
Aside from my conjecture, an 'S' index is a very desirable find, particularly for the price you paid.
I'll wait to see if you find anything more about this.
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The two pieces you have shown adorned with the Jubilee issue, is the most astonishing 'on piece' examples I have ever seen.
Based on my counting and calculations, there are 149 adhesives, and using the current SG 5th edition listing, the catalogue value works out to be £ 19,370 for non variety copies.
It is probable that the gaps are where the varieties were found (if indeed all have been removed).
It is worth noting that all have been struck by the B62 obliterator. The vast majority of Jubilees were cancelled on the first day of issue by a Hong Kong CDS. So it's unfortunate that it's not possible to tell when they were actually canceled.
Furthermore, there was a rather lowly limit on the number of these that were allowed to be bought by individuals; 30 I think to start with. These were reportedly all sold out on the day. So this raises the question of how were so many obtained. No doubt he had some 'assistance' to obtain these.
Where did you find these images?
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I am a member of a Facebook group Hong Kong Stamps, Covers and Postmarks
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HKSCP/?ref=group_header
One of the other members posted it - it is remarkable - I suppose he must have sent his junior employees to line up and buy as much as they could. I wonder if he had whole sheets CTO and then split it up, i imagine he must have been a dealer surely to lay it out like that...
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These three Hong Kong stamps from my collection all have USA "World's Panama-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco 1915" partial cancellations. This cancel was used in the western United States in many locations. I have scanned 4 examples from my collection of this cancel used at Pasadena, California, San Francisco, California, Seattle, Washington, and Portland, Oregon, to show you what the entire cancellation looked like. Ningpo and WillLack, have you ever seen this cancel used on Hong Kong stamps?
Linus
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New to me. And I don't usually miss something out of the ordinary. Any idea how long this slogan was in use for?
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The Panama-Pacific International Exposition was a world's fair that opened in San Francisco on February 20, 1915. The postmark was used to help promote the world's fair. I do not have a reference book detailing the usage of this postmark, but based on the examples from my own collection, the Pasadena, California cancel was used on January 22, 1912, which is over 3 years prior to the opening date of the fair. All I can do to answer your question, Ningpo, is to estimate it at greater than 3 years of use.
If you note the San Francisco example of this postmark above, the line "in San Francisco" is omitted. My 3 Hong Kong stamps all have that line included, so I can conclude they were not cancelled in San Francisco, but which city they were cancelled in remains a mystery. I have never seen a complete cover or postcard with this postmark on Hong Kong stamps on cover. I would love to see one. This postmark was used a lot on USA postcards, as my 4 examples are all on postcards. Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess.
Linus
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"Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess."
Very likely, as this was still the postcard rate at the time.
Three years seems a rather long lead up to the exposition to me but perhaps this was normal for this type of event.
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The most common postmark you will find on Hong Kong Queen Victoria issues is the B62 killer. Shown below are samples from my collection:
Some of you newer members of Stamporama may not be aware that Hong Kong also used a 62B killer cancel, which is more difficult to find, but if you are keenly aware, these can still be found among dealer stocks of Queen Victoria, if you dig for them. Below are 3 examples that I have found over the years, and are now in my collection.
Linus
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here are some new items in my collection of unusual arrival locations for HK stamps
Oporto, Portugal
Znaim,( Znojmo) in what is now the Czech Republic - the Austro-Hungarian Empire
Ornskoldsvik, Sweden
Odessa, Russian Empire
Oval 75 Duplex - Birmingham
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It is possible, although by no means sure, that these stamps were postmarked upon arrival. Some might have escaped cancellation in Hong Kong (and any post office noticing an uncancelled stamp was supposed to cancel it), and the Swedish postmark might just be an ordinary arrival mark. Of course, it is difficult to tell with loose stamps.
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here are some more
India
Russian East Asiatic Steamship Co
Paphos, Cyprus
Cape Colony, Cape Town
St Helena,South Atlantic
Brisbane GPO cancel -apparently a Campbell type 6
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The thread entitled, Hong Kong: errors, curiosities and the unidentified has become rather long and is now causing lengthy loading times for some. As suggested, a Part II version is now being started here.
This is the first post of the ‘new’ thread with a modified title to include postmarks.
Below is a rather washed out pair of 20 cent on 30 cent 1891 provisional overprints, with two strikes of a Thursday Island cancellation. The numerals ‘148’ in four concentric rings of dots in an oval pattern, is a Webb Type Bi postmark.
Thursday Island is in the Torres Strait, some 39 kilometres north of Cape York Peninsula, Queensland, Australia.
This marking is attributed to mail arriving on Thursday Island, normally in transit elsewhere; possibly New Zealand.
Although condition is an issue, I felt that the chances of finding another pair with this postmark was very slim, particularly as it is not often found on Hong Kong adhesives.
..............................
The diamond shaped blue lozenge is a company security marking, seemingly applied in fugitive ink which has run; the fugitive green ink used to print the adhesives has washed out too.
EDIT
The following information has been put in this post, in response to a request from JEREMY HODES of http://queenslandstampnumerals.blogspot.co.uk/ who requested measurements of the '148' numerals on the cancellation.
I have tried posting on his blog with no success, so in the hope that he reviews this thread (he has linked to it in his blog) he will find the answer to that question......
Jeremy, my apologies for not responding to your question before now. Only the numerals '1' and '4' can be measured with any degree of accuracy, and even then I am not sure these have been struck fully. Anyway, they measure 5 mm and 5.5 mm respectively.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
For those that collect Kong Kong, I would like to bring to your attention the following thread: New website dedicated to forgeries
This is pertinent to collectors of overprints and postmarks in particular, as there is a forgery operation based in Canada that is currently selling on eBay.
http://tinyurl.com/osyc5qy
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Mr Manyk is of course flaunting the eBay rules regarding forgeries, in that these copies should be marked as such on the back. Despite him being reported in the past, eBay have done nothing as usual.
And today another raft of forgeries has been listed. At the rate he lists (and probably creates them) the market will be flooded in the future.
This could have a severe effect on sellers of genuine material because as the word gets around of this forger's work, the better informed buyer will be reluctant to take any chances.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Here's a pair of 1912-1921 Multiple Crown CA 6 cent Brown-orange, with a rather large boxed multi lingual 'STEAMER' marking.
There is another word after steamer within the box that I can't make out and what appears to be one or more characters before it.
I haven't seen this one before and know nothing about it.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I happened to spot these two stamps in a small mixed lot, at the opposite ends of a stock card. I thought they may be connected in some way and used the actual auction scan to cut and paste the two together.
And lo and behold; two stamps showing partial strikes of Nederland Indie 'Tandjong-Priok' ship markings. I didn't have a single example in my collection; and they married up.....
Or so I thought:
According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!
So the two of them are back 'on the shelf'. Nice little find though, even if I do say so myself.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Just purchased the following unusual cancels on HK stamps
B127 is Moulmein Burma
Martinique in the Caribbean
Cairo Egypt
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04:06:25pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
OMG, wonderful! Was this on the Bay?
Peter
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I'd be very surprised if he did. He has connections you know; I've seen his mugshot on the back of a HK Study Circle bulletin.
Marvellous additions by the way. I personally have not seen any one of these before, not even in an auction catalogue.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
WillLack
Those are great cancels. I have never seen any Hong Kong stamps cancelled in those places before either. Thanks for sharing with us.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
really fabulous pieces - put a dent in my stamp spending for the next 4 months or so.... what I really want now is a Malacca cancel, an Aden cancel and maybe a Malta and Gibralter still to find...
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
WillLack,
Your Cairo, Egypt cancel with Cook's Tourist Service is from Thomas Cook and Sons, a pioneer in the package tours business out of England that conducted tours around the world. They were so successful running tours up and down the Nile River that they had their own fleet of steamships hauling passengers, tourists, and mail. I have seen this cancel before on Ebay listings. There is lots of information about them on the internet via Google.
I was recently reading about Thomas Cook as I researched the Hong Kong revenue stamp below from my own collection.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I found this block amongst a dealers stock years ago and noticed the bottom left hand stamp had a broken 'W' of 'Wedding'. From 1981, this is SG399 (Scott #373), from a set of three.
I wasn't sure if this was a constant variety or just a one off, so just put it aside:
Some time later I found this one:
Then last week I saw an identical marginal block of 8 listed on eBay, with the same variety. So it would seem this is constant but unlisted.
I checked out my newly arrived Yang catalogue, as they tend to list the minor printing varieties, only to find that they have clagged up this particular issue. They have omitted the set completely. It was listed in the previous catalogue but the new one jumps from C156 to C160.
Quelle suprise! I had hoped that Yang might have made a better job of this new catalogue.
Anyway, although only a minor variety (some might say 'a flyspeck'), this is perhaps worth looking out for, as it is a common stamp. It may be listed by somebody...eventually.
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11:12:39pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Ningpo: You wrote:
>Or so I thought:
>According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!
My experience is that these cancels of Netherlands Indies (called short bar cancels) are always over 25mm in diameter. And, indeed, aren't the stamps in the picture above more than 22mm high? The 20mm in Yang must be wrong.
Jan
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Jan,
You are absolutely right. It didn't even dawn on me that 20mm couldn't possibly be correct; these definitives are around 24mm in height, including perfs. So the CDS would have to be that diameter at minimum.
So perhaps the two I found are part of the same strike after all. I should know better than to take Yang's description as gospel.
Thank you for pointing this out. You get the cigar instead.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Willack posted a newly acquired strike of the Thomas Cook - Cairo CDS. Another turned up on eBay a week or so ago. This one is on a large piece with two strikes. Interesting recipient! Perhaps the Duke was on a 'grand tour' of the far east:
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
A new variety addition: Sg134c 'lightning conductor' on chapel:
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
New additions to my collection of arrival marking on HK
San Francisco cogwheel
Triest, where Austria Lloyd shipping line had its base
Russian Post office Shanghai
Not technically an arrival cancel- Jenny & Co, Manila - but the firm chop is previously unrecorded on HK adhesives - see Rod Sell's site on security markings etc
http://rodsell.com/hksmsic/hksmsic.html
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
WillLack,
Those are all nice cancels, thanks for scanning and sharing.
Below is a block of 3 from my collection. Between the two HONG-KONG 19 JUL 41 SHEUNG.WAN cancels is a "HONOLULU HAWAII AUG 16 1941 REGISTERED" cancel. I only wish it was a complete block of 4, but at least it is still together, as is.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Wimbledon - sadly did not win this on ebay... ugh
another Wimbledon
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
An unusual location - (Papua) New Guinea
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Direction marking (Cheribon) Cirebon in West Java Dutch East Indies - Indonesia went on Ebay for £285 sadly not to me - previously unrecorded...
For more info on Forwarding Markings http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/001_RedirectionMarkings_Jones/@RM_Jones.html
Another Ebay one I missed out on Port Dickson - Malaya - although now a little suspicious as the cancel is very clean and almost too crisp
Interesting as a chop applied to an envelop - not really a forwarding agents mark, but a nice piece alongside the Tientsin cancel..
For more info on Forwarding agents marks
http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/013-Forwrding-Agents-PO/Forwarding-Agents-List-May.pdf
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
almost sure that the Port Dickson cancel is a fake - blowing it up looks like an inkjet fake - and the seller has form -
look at this terrible fake
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONG-KONG-CHINA-1912-KGV-3-00-SG-114-WITH-SINGAPORE-POSTMARK-/222087748040?hash=item33b57619c8:g:44kAAOSwkx5XEPBL
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
New York arrival cancel on King Edward VII
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Just seen this on ebay, any thoughts on the colour wash out, the red line under the left stamps is not consistent or straight and the paper seems extremely thin.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Those red 'Jubilee' margin lines are quite normal for GVI definitive issues. As to the colour; unless this is a poor scan, they are very faded. Looking at the plate number lozenge, the colour has deteriorated from a dull lilac to a grey shade.
There seems to be some colour bleed (or offset) on the RH stamp too.
As for the paper; again this looks quite normal. However, the pair typically (for this 1938 issue) have toned gum. These appear though to have been left in sunlight.
In conclusion; I would avoid these.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Here are two strikes of the Japanese Formosa postmark on KEVII adhesives. Both are probably the same date and likely to be no later than 1905.
It is thought that stamps were purchased on the island from the British Consulate.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I would like to share some Hong Kong postmarks from my collection. For those who like Hong Kong....enjoy!
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Some nice strikes there Linus. I particularly like your straight line Amoy and Statow. You have a very good copy of the large format QV $1.50 'chestnut' revenue stamp, with a part 'Paid-All' fiscal cancellation.
I don't have a copy of that myself.This was issued in 1867. Interestingly, this was the only stamp in that series to be forged (to defraud the revenue). It was crudely printed by woodblock and perforated 10½. Yours is 15½ x 15.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I spotted this on an auction site as a 'buy it now'. I noticed the very strange cancellation, which I have never seen before:
Here's a close-up of the CDS:
I then tried to isolate the CDS, which was very difficult due to the bottom portion merging into the dark area of the mountain.
This is what I managed to come up with:
There are no known Hong Kong postmarks with vertical bars in the inner circle, which were used in early Japanese postmarks and some British colonies (perhaps elsewhere too). So The question is, is this an unrecorded postmark type? Well, I suspect that in view of the rather squiffy date slugs, this is bogus.
I am though, rather pleased to have found it.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Just received today, which I spotted in a small auction lot, is a barred numeral 556 postmark of CAPE COAST CASTLE, GOLD COAST. An extraordinary destination:
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
wow what a find - if you ever want to sell.....
I am hoping to at some point in the next 10 years write a new book on Hong Kong Arrival Cancellations to replace the 1980 Black and white one- now that scanners and colour printing so much cheaper
Would love to receive scans of arrival markings from non traditional (ie Treaty Port) locations and would credit in the magnum opus I intend to write.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
here is an unusual Hong Kong arrival marking - Larnaca in Cyprus.....
and this is an unusual company marking - Railway Property under a Foochow DCS
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
During a moment of rest from trying to sort watermarks I found these, the varieties do not seem to be noted in the Scott or SG catalogues. Does Yang mention them.
The vertical line is more noticeable visually but the scan does not come out to well.
Any thoughts?
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
These sort of flaws are not listed in any catalogues.
The first 'flaw' you show, seems to be one of those endless variable fly specks that plague this issue; not only on HK but other colonies who were supplied by the same printers. Just page up to my post in this thread, showing the enlarged image of the 'lightning conductor' on chapel. Then look at the rooftop of the same turret as yours - mine looks like a TV aerial; yours looks like a radio aerial.
The second 'line' flaw, is one of many that seem to occur from time to time. Some are more extreme than others. In fact there is another post on this thread: Hong Kong: errors......(Thread Closed)
But to save looking, here it is again (to keep things nice and neat):
In that thread, I uploaded this image of what I called a 'balloon string' flaw.
There is a whole thread dedicated to these un-catalogued varieties on the 'Australian board'.
I'd imagine that none of these will achieve catalogue status until it can be proven that these are 'constant' varieties. Most we see, seem to be of a more random nature.
My own view is that the rather waxy/viscous ink on the castle vignette, contributes to their appearance.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Thanks Ningpo, guess I'll just keep them as a curiosity and annotate the page accordingly.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
After taking the summer off from my stamp collection, it is time to dive back in, and post on the board again as my contribution to this club. I enjoy everyone's posts on here, and I learn a lot from all of you. Thank you! Perhaps others can learn a little from my lifetime accumulation of stamps and covers.
To my old pal Ningpo, this scan is for you...Ningpo, you there??
These Hong Kong stamps have the Treaty Port of Ningpo cancellations. Ningpo was about 100 miles south of Shanghai, China, 20 miles inland from the coast on a short navigable river opposite the island of Chusan. Ningpo was one of the 5 original Treaty Ports ceded to Great Britain in 1842. When it was ceded. it was already in British hands, for Chusan was the main base of the British Fleet in the First China War, and the expeditionary force captured Ningpo in October 1841, and wintered there.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Thanks for the mention Linus and welcome back. Nice little cluster there, including the one that's the same as my Avatar. Your's is a bit earlier though.
I did manage to pick up an N1 killer cancel, albeit incomplete. But these now go for silly money.
Hope you have been saving up your coppers over the summer months You might just need them.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I have yet to find the N1 killer, as they seem to be difficult to locate, but I will keep hunting. I am sure a dealer will ask quite a lot for one.
Here is a nice Registered Shanghai Branch Post Office cancellation on a King Edward VII pair that I acquired awhile back, for your enjoyment.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Below are scans from the Treaty Port of Amoy from my Hong Kong collection. The A1 and D27 were early killer cancellations from Amoy, which was another of the five original Treaty Ports opened under the Treaty of Nanking in 1842.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
Some fine strikes there Linus. The neat placement of these became ever wayward as time progressed.
Getting these complete (or at least, near as damn it), is always a challenge.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I did not win this on a recent ebay auction but its one I really wanted I think it went for £141 - I was stuck in traffic late on the way home so missed the end and would gone a bit higher than that,
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
How about this to set your pulses racing
and
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
"This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary"
If this is from Stanley, you wouldn't have found this in Webb. I would have to check this out by looking at Ted Prouds book.
Stanley had an agency in a police post in the 20's, but I don't think any postmarks have been recorded earlier than 1930 (according to Webb).
In my view, a handstamp of this type would have been made for a much larger post office existing in Victorian times. I don't think any of those tiny branch offices would have warranted such a handstamp (or any for that matter), until postal volumes reached the levels of around the 1910/1920's era; which even then were fairly low.
Aside from my conjecture, an 'S' index is a very desirable find, particularly for the price you paid.
I'll wait to see if you find anything more about this.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
The two pieces you have shown adorned with the Jubilee issue, is the most astonishing 'on piece' examples I have ever seen.
Based on my counting and calculations, there are 149 adhesives, and using the current SG 5th edition listing, the catalogue value works out to be £ 19,370 for non variety copies.
It is probable that the gaps are where the varieties were found (if indeed all have been removed).
It is worth noting that all have been struck by the B62 obliterator. The vast majority of Jubilees were cancelled on the first day of issue by a Hong Kong CDS. So it's unfortunate that it's not possible to tell when they were actually canceled.
Furthermore, there was a rather lowly limit on the number of these that were allowed to be bought by individuals; 30 I think to start with. These were reportedly all sold out on the day. So this raises the question of how were so many obtained. No doubt he had some 'assistance' to obtain these.
Where did you find these images?
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
I am a member of a Facebook group Hong Kong Stamps, Covers and Postmarks
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HKSCP/?ref=group_header
One of the other members posted it - it is remarkable - I suppose he must have sent his junior employees to line up and buy as much as they could. I wonder if he had whole sheets CTO and then split it up, i imagine he must have been a dealer surely to lay it out like that...
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
These three Hong Kong stamps from my collection all have USA "World's Panama-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco 1915" partial cancellations. This cancel was used in the western United States in many locations. I have scanned 4 examples from my collection of this cancel used at Pasadena, California, San Francisco, California, Seattle, Washington, and Portland, Oregon, to show you what the entire cancellation looked like. Ningpo and WillLack, have you ever seen this cancel used on Hong Kong stamps?
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
New to me. And I don't usually miss something out of the ordinary. Any idea how long this slogan was in use for?
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
The Panama-Pacific International Exposition was a world's fair that opened in San Francisco on February 20, 1915. The postmark was used to help promote the world's fair. I do not have a reference book detailing the usage of this postmark, but based on the examples from my own collection, the Pasadena, California cancel was used on January 22, 1912, which is over 3 years prior to the opening date of the fair. All I can do to answer your question, Ningpo, is to estimate it at greater than 3 years of use.
If you note the San Francisco example of this postmark above, the line "in San Francisco" is omitted. My 3 Hong Kong stamps all have that line included, so I can conclude they were not cancelled in San Francisco, but which city they were cancelled in remains a mystery. I have never seen a complete cover or postcard with this postmark on Hong Kong stamps on cover. I would love to see one. This postmark was used a lot on USA postcards, as my 4 examples are all on postcards. Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
"Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess."
Very likely, as this was still the postcard rate at the time.
Three years seems a rather long lead up to the exposition to me but perhaps this was normal for this type of event.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
The most common postmark you will find on Hong Kong Queen Victoria issues is the B62 killer. Shown below are samples from my collection:
Some of you newer members of Stamporama may not be aware that Hong Kong also used a 62B killer cancel, which is more difficult to find, but if you are keenly aware, these can still be found among dealer stocks of Queen Victoria, if you dig for them. Below are 3 examples that I have found over the years, and are now in my collection.
Linus
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
here are some new items in my collection of unusual arrival locations for HK stamps
Oporto, Portugal
Znaim,( Znojmo) in what is now the Czech Republic - the Austro-Hungarian Empire
Ornskoldsvik, Sweden
Odessa, Russian Empire
Oval 75 Duplex - Birmingham
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10:14:52am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
It is possible, although by no means sure, that these stamps were postmarked upon arrival. Some might have escaped cancellation in Hong Kong (and any post office noticing an uncancelled stamp was supposed to cancel it), and the Swedish postmark might just be an ordinary arrival mark. Of course, it is difficult to tell with loose stamps.
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re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified
here are some more
India
Russian East Asiatic Steamship Co
Paphos, Cyprus
Cape Colony, Cape Town
St Helena,South Atlantic
Brisbane GPO cancel -apparently a Campbell type 6
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