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General Philatelic/Identify This? : King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

 

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ydono

08 Jun 2015
05:51:03pm
I've spent the day looking through stamp catalogs at the library - so you know I have a headache! Surprise

I'm hoping someone can help me understand the terms used in the catalog for this stamp and how to know if it is "double impression" or "imperf" and the difference between 12 1/2 and 13 1/2. Most of the other stamps I looked at did not have these types of notations.

Also - does the ink (i guess that is the cancellation stamp) make it worth less in this situation.

Really Appreciate It!



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khj
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08 Jun 2015
06:28:04pm
re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

On the double impression, the typographed part of the stamp has been printed twice. So basically, you will see a 2nd printing of the stamp that is very slightly shifted from the other printing. Your stamp is not a double impression.

The numbers 12½ and 13½ refer to the perforation (i.e., how many holes there are per 20mm). A perforation gauge will give you a more accurate measurement, but you can get a rough measurement by counting how many holes/partials per 20mm. This particular stamp series was produced with 2 different perforations. In the Scott standard catalogs, Scott does not provide a separate catalog number for the different perforations of this issue. By default, the catalog number is actually for the perf 12½ stamps. Scott provides minor catalog numbers/prices for the perf 13½ stamps in the Scott Classic catalog.

Yes, the ink is the cancel. For this particular set, the cancel does in general reduce the catalog value of the stamp (see right column prices). This is not always true for other stamps. Also, note that sometimes the used price on cover/card can be more than the price of the mint stamp.

k

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ydono

08 Jun 2015
07:33:44pm
re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

thank you. that was very helpful. looks like it is a $5.00 stamp.... better than most I've had so far Happy

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michael78651

08 Jun 2015
09:08:18pm
re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

Well, not so fast on the value of the stamp.

You would do well to read the introduction to the catalog. It will tell you much of what you need to learn about stamps.

Scott values are for stamps in very fine condition, free of defects. Any and all defects on a stamp drop the value considerably. From your image I can see what appear to be torn perfs along the bottom of the stamp, and some toning at the bottom right corner of the stamp. The toning could just be a color issue from the orientation of the stamp, so maybe toning isn't there. In any event, the torn perfs will drop the catalog value of the stamp to probably less than a dollar. The image doesn't show the left side of the stamp. nor is there any discussion regarding the back of the stamp.

Don't get yourself overly concerned about the values of your stamps. What you should be concerned about is enjoying the hobby.

But, once again, do read the introduction to the catalog. You will learn quite a bit.

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Bobstamp
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08 Jun 2015
11:01:58pm
re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

Michael is right. And even if stamps are in perfect condition it's no guarantee that they're worth anything. When I was just returning to collecting after a misspent youth, I bought a great Canadian stamp at a price far below catalogue. I immediately took it across the street to another dealer, and offered it to him. He wasn't interested at any price!

Bob

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

10 Jun 2015
07:52:20am
re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

" ... He wasn't interested at any price! ..."

And why not one might wonder?
I taught one of my boys "why" some thirty years ago when he discovered some baseball "rookie" card that had a Bowman catalog listing of about twenty dollars. I think he actually had three copies.
I had spent quite a bit of time trying to explain the relationships between supply, demand and popularity. I could see that he was skeptical so I told him to take the cards and we were going shopping. A local baseball card store was open and sure enough there was an example of that particular card lying in a display case under the glass' (I am sure he can recall the player's name to this day, but I can't)
It was priced according to that Bowman catalog at $25.
So he offered one of his cards to the dealer. The shop owner refused just as Bob's dealer did. But this fellow reached over to a shelf and laid out at least a dozen of this player's "rookie" card. He explained that he had as much money tied up in that issue as he could afford. "If I sell most of them and am down to one or two, I might buy one but only for about five dollars, maybe less." (That may have been thee dollars, it was a long time ago.)
My son looked at me an smiled since that was three of the things I had tried to explain. One, there is a difference between wholesale and retail. customers buy at retail and dealers buy at whole sale.
Two, a dealer has to monitor his inventory and may not wish to invest a lot of money of what might be a wild eyed speculation in an item that was still in production, or could be produced again by a manufacturer.
Oh, and number three; His dad might look like he accidentally fell off the turnip truck last night, but looks are deceiving.
One evening at supper, Andy told me he had sold the cards, to other kids at school for $10.00 each.
He didn't fall of no turnip truck either.









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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

 

Author/Postings
ydono

08 Jun 2015
05:51:03pm

I've spent the day looking through stamp catalogs at the library - so you know I have a headache! Surprise

I'm hoping someone can help me understand the terms used in the catalog for this stamp and how to know if it is "double impression" or "imperf" and the difference between 12 1/2 and 13 1/2. Most of the other stamps I looked at did not have these types of notations.

Also - does the ink (i guess that is the cancellation stamp) make it worth less in this situation.

Really Appreciate It!



Image Not Found

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likes this post.
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khj

08 Jun 2015
06:28:04pm

re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

On the double impression, the typographed part of the stamp has been printed twice. So basically, you will see a 2nd printing of the stamp that is very slightly shifted from the other printing. Your stamp is not a double impression.

The numbers 12½ and 13½ refer to the perforation (i.e., how many holes there are per 20mm). A perforation gauge will give you a more accurate measurement, but you can get a rough measurement by counting how many holes/partials per 20mm. This particular stamp series was produced with 2 different perforations. In the Scott standard catalogs, Scott does not provide a separate catalog number for the different perforations of this issue. By default, the catalog number is actually for the perf 12½ stamps. Scott provides minor catalog numbers/prices for the perf 13½ stamps in the Scott Classic catalog.

Yes, the ink is the cancel. For this particular set, the cancel does in general reduce the catalog value of the stamp (see right column prices). This is not always true for other stamps. Also, note that sometimes the used price on cover/card can be more than the price of the mint stamp.

k

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ydono

08 Jun 2015
07:33:44pm

re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

thank you. that was very helpful. looks like it is a $5.00 stamp.... better than most I've had so far Happy

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this post
michael78651

08 Jun 2015
09:08:18pm

re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

Well, not so fast on the value of the stamp.

You would do well to read the introduction to the catalog. It will tell you much of what you need to learn about stamps.

Scott values are for stamps in very fine condition, free of defects. Any and all defects on a stamp drop the value considerably. From your image I can see what appear to be torn perfs along the bottom of the stamp, and some toning at the bottom right corner of the stamp. The toning could just be a color issue from the orientation of the stamp, so maybe toning isn't there. In any event, the torn perfs will drop the catalog value of the stamp to probably less than a dollar. The image doesn't show the left side of the stamp. nor is there any discussion regarding the back of the stamp.

Don't get yourself overly concerned about the values of your stamps. What you should be concerned about is enjoying the hobby.

But, once again, do read the introduction to the catalog. You will learn quite a bit.

Like
Login to Like
this post
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Bobstamp

08 Jun 2015
11:01:58pm

re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

Michael is right. And even if stamps are in perfect condition it's no guarantee that they're worth anything. When I was just returning to collecting after a misspent youth, I bought a great Canadian stamp at a price far below catalogue. I immediately took it across the street to another dealer, and offered it to him. He wasn't interested at any price!

Bob

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this post

www.ephemeraltreasur ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
10 Jun 2015
07:52:20am

re: King Luiz Stamp from Portugal (1870-84)

" ... He wasn't interested at any price! ..."

And why not one might wonder?
I taught one of my boys "why" some thirty years ago when he discovered some baseball "rookie" card that had a Bowman catalog listing of about twenty dollars. I think he actually had three copies.
I had spent quite a bit of time trying to explain the relationships between supply, demand and popularity. I could see that he was skeptical so I told him to take the cards and we were going shopping. A local baseball card store was open and sure enough there was an example of that particular card lying in a display case under the glass' (I am sure he can recall the player's name to this day, but I can't)
It was priced according to that Bowman catalog at $25.
So he offered one of his cards to the dealer. The shop owner refused just as Bob's dealer did. But this fellow reached over to a shelf and laid out at least a dozen of this player's "rookie" card. He explained that he had as much money tied up in that issue as he could afford. "If I sell most of them and am down to one or two, I might buy one but only for about five dollars, maybe less." (That may have been thee dollars, it was a long time ago.)
My son looked at me an smiled since that was three of the things I had tried to explain. One, there is a difference between wholesale and retail. customers buy at retail and dealers buy at whole sale.
Two, a dealer has to monitor his inventory and may not wish to invest a lot of money of what might be a wild eyed speculation in an item that was still in production, or could be produced again by a manufacturer.
Oh, and number three; His dad might look like he accidentally fell off the turnip truck last night, but looks are deceiving.
One evening at supper, Andy told me he had sold the cards, to other kids at school for $10.00 each.
He didn't fall of no turnip truck either.









Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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