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United States/Stamps : Wove Paper

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khj
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08 May 2015
12:52:56pm
All the US 1893 Columbians were printed on soft porous paper. If you have one of the common ones, you can use that as a reference. Hold it up to a light and look through it, and also examine the teeth edges on a dark surface with a magnifier. That should give you a rough idea of what the soft porous paper should look like.
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khj
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08 May 2015
01:00:09pm
re: Wove Paper

Based on the picture, the large number of fibers sticking out of the teeth is often indicative of soft porous paper. But that is just an eyeball guess. It's better for you to examine the actual stamp.

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nl1947
08 May 2015
01:20:48pm
re: Wove Paper

would this qualify it - they are 179/185?

Image Not Found

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khj
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08 May 2015
02:11:47pm
re: Wove Paper

I don't really collect US classics, and already gave my "guess". I'll leave it to the US classics collectors to give the correct answer.

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keesindy
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23 Feb 2017
08:28:55pm
re: Wove Paper

I'm puzzled again!

I'm trying to distinguish between laid and wove paper for a bunch of 1890 1c blue cut squares on manila paper. I understand the differences between the two paper types and can easily identify the laid paper most of the time. On these, the lines are angled at about 30°. Some copies on laid paper don't have very clear lines. I suppose that's a result of either paper batch differences or printing variability. Still, they're distinguishable from what I think are the wove paper examples.

The thing I haven't seen mentioned about the wove paper is a discernible very fine pattern in some cases. It shows up as a light and dark horizontal pattern when the cut squares are magnified and viewed with back lighting. A pattern also appears when viewing the back of the cut square as faint closely-spaced horizontal depressions and ridges when the cut square is held upright. If I turn it 90°, that pattern disappears. The cut square must be held at just the correct angle with a bright light source to see this pattern. And it is only visible on the back; the pattern is not visible on the stamp face among the paper fibers.

My guess is that this is wove paper and I'm seeing evidence of the screen on which the paper was made. If so, is this just evidence of the variability in the wove paper production process, where some paper sheets would show the screen imprint and some wouldn't? Or could it be something else entirely?

Tom


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"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
lemaven
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24 Feb 2017
09:15:54am
re: Wove Paper

Sounds like a great SoR Article with plenty of pictures and annotations..

Big Grin

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
24 Feb 2017
09:30:21am
re: Wove Paper

This link might help..
http://www.stampsmarter.com/learning/Manuf_PaperUsedForUSStamps.html
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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keesindy
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24 Feb 2017
11:48:02am
re: Wove Paper

If only I knew what I was doing! I've wandered off into the weeds here. Not sure how I got here and not sure how to get back on track! Big Grin

I spent more time last night and early this morning looking at a couple hundred more of these 1c blue manila cut squares. Most are certainly wrappers.

Nothing scientific about my method, but most I've looked at are on laid paper with diagonal (~30° from vertical) lines. A fair number have the lines running horizontally. In both cases, the lines are less clear than the 1c blue on manila paper (Scott U300). Fewer copies are on wove paper.

I've searched for another copy matching the description of that example in my original post. Some of what I'm calling wove paper examples this morning have that very faint horizontal linear pattern, but I have found no other copies where I can see the horizontal linear pattern on the back side of the cut squares. That example I described in the original post remains unique so far in that regard.

I did find one cut square that is unique in a different respect. In one small area, it seems to have the ~30° diagonal lines, but they're very, very faint. In other areas, it seems to have the very fine pattern of horizontal lines as does the example in the original post. This new find has a partial watermark 8 (UPSS). It is thicker than the wrapper paper, but thinner than the few 1c blue copies I have on manila paper. UPSS lists a 1c blue on manila paper variety as "wove paper, thin paper," but they say it has no watermark. So my new find doesn't seem to match a UPSS catalog variety.


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keesindy
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24 Feb 2017
12:03:14pm
re: Wove Paper

Thanks for that link, Don. It's one I hadn't found in my searches last evening. It included this.

SOFT PAPER – A looser weave more porous paper than hard, so it feels softer, displays a mesh or weave when viewed by holding the stamp between your eyes and light so that you are looking “through” the stamp.

That is the first time I've seen that the mesh weave is viewable. That must be what I'm seeing, but it doesn't appear on all the 1c blue wove paper examples I'm finding and it's seldom (ever?) apparent over the entire cut square. I suppose that variability is just a natural facet of the 19th century paper making technologies being employed.

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Webpaper
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24 Feb 2017
04:02:25pm
re: Wove Paper

Just like colors, watermarks, etc, where you have two distinct choices you will always end up with three piles. Pile 1 identified as one type. Pile 2 identified as the other type. And Pile 3 - the "let someone else play with it pile"

To maintain sanity I sprinkle the 3rd pile liberally into giveaway lots and lots for sale so I don't have to deal with them anymore. If there is a large price spread between the two known choices (thinking WF watermarks here)the unknowns always go into the cheaper pile..always.

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keesindy
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24 Feb 2017
05:26:59pm
re: Wove Paper

Ah, yes, sanity! At Wits End

My problem is that I often put things away and hope that looking at them again later (sometimes years later) will lead to answers. That option was easier to consider when I was younger!

I agree about always placing unknowns, where there are two choices, into the cheaper pile. However, with these early 1890s cut squares, I have a fourth pile! Fancy cancels! Not always, of course, but often enough to make the entire process more interesting and fun. Some of the otherwise useless unknowns with fancy cancels may be useful to someone out there.

Oh, and with the UPSS Die 88 2c Washingtons, there is a fifth pile! Unlisted varieties. They abound! I don't collect them and I'm not sure that many others do, but it's been another interesting area of investigation when I feel like rummaging through my 11-12,000 Die 88s.

And, speaking of the Die 88s, that is where I was when I got sidetracked yesterday into the Die 83 1c blue Franklin world and paper types. Maybe I can find my way back now that I remember were I was.

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