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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Perforations

 

Author
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John Macco
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Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector

01 May 2015
04:38:39pm
When you see the compound perforations, which number is the top of the stamp? I just got my new Scott multi-gauge. Since the gauge is clear, what does one do to make it easier to see and to use? I got a gauge so I can sort some russian stamps which have perf differences.
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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

01 May 2015
05:31:30pm
re: Perforations

Scott lists perforations by horiz x vert. Gibbons goes the other way vert x horiz.I stand corrected.

I use the gauge by placing the gauge on top of the stamp and lining up the diagonal lines to intersect the perfs in the center of each "tooth". Frequently look closeup with a 10x glass.

Roy

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khj
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01 May 2015
06:00:17pm
re: Perforations

"Gibbons goes the other way vert x horiz."




SG and Scott both use the same convention. Top (horizontal) perforation measurement first.

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khj
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01 May 2015
06:03:43pm
re: Perforations

Since some stamps have different perforations on more than 2 sides, the general rule used by Scott is that the measurements are given in clockwise order starting from the top (e.g., for a quadrilateral stamp: Top x Right x Bottom x Left).

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

02 May 2015
01:57:07pm
re: Perforations

" .... Since the gauge is clear, what does one do to make it easier to see and to use? ...."

Often I'll slip the stamp into a spare GK102BK card so the perfs will be shown against a black background plus it makes manipulating the stamp easier.
If the stamp is mounted with a hinge I have another "102" card that has the cellophane (???) removed and is trimmed so it can be slipped beneath the mounted stamp to again have the perfs shown with the black background.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
jimjung

03 May 2015
09:06:47am
re: Perforations

I also have a clear gauge. What I do is put the stamp on the front of the gauge so I can move it back and forth to line up with the marks on the gauge.

I always measure using the spaces between the teeth because I feel this is more accurate. The teeth may be uneven or broken so this may cause a slight difference in measurement that is not correct but the spaces between the teeth should always be original from the printers.

I do sometimes put it in a holder. In these cases I will put the gauge on top of the stamp. This is good if you are moving around. For example, taking the stamp to the window to get better lighting.

An extra note. I have heard that metal gauges may change slightly in different temperatures due to expansion and contraction. Not sure this is true but I don't use metal perf gauges.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

03 May 2015
09:54:00am
re: Perforations

You might want to check this topic from about a month ago where we Al;l discussed gauge types and the various advantages of certain ones.

Click here; perfgauges

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
nl1947

03 May 2015
11:04:51am
re: Perforations

"An extra note. I have heard that metal gauges may change slightly in different temperatures due to expansion and contraction. Not sure this is true but I don't use metal perf gauges."


This would be a common misconception as we are more familiar with metals and how they act with temperature changes.

To make it simple without engineering jargon;
if steel has an expansion/contraction rate of 1x
then aluminium would be 2x
plastics would be 4x-12x depending on the material

However this is purely academic as the change over 2cm (what the gauge measures) and using an aluminium gauge with a difference in temperature of 65 to 95 degrees F would be:

(now I will get techie) Big Grin - .02 (initial length in m) X .000023 (the aluminium coefficient of expansion in mm per degree change) X 30(the temperature difference - 95-65)+ .02 (initial length in m) = 2.0014cm.
A change that you cannot visibly measure.
Also the paper changes as much or more than the metal but that is more complicated as the grain, humidity and other factors come into play.

In conclusion, the material the gauge is made of is secondary to its accuracy. Catalogs tend to round off the perforation size so having an accurate gauge can determine the difference between a common or valuable stamp.

EDITED:

" Since the gauge is clear, what does one do to make it easier to see and to use? "


To answer John's original question. I use a clear gauge also with the stamp on top so a dark background like my desk is disturbing so I taped a white card stock to the back of the gauge. A good flexible lighting source and a magnifying glass does the trick.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

03 May 2015
11:51:21am
re: Perforations

" .... a dark background like my desk is disturbing ....

That's funny. To me at least.
I find a black background much more efficient except for some very dark stamps printed from edge to edge.
Perhaps the angle that the light strikes the stamp and gauge makes a difference ?

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
nl1947

03 May 2015
01:38:56pm
re: Perforations

less funny from my perspective - that's why we have opinions
Big Grin
Image Not Found Image Not Found

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John Macco
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Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector

03 May 2015
02:47:37pm
re: Perforations

Thanks all for the information.Happy

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
John Macco

Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector
01 May 2015
04:38:39pm

When you see the compound perforations, which number is the top of the stamp? I just got my new Scott multi-gauge. Since the gauge is clear, what does one do to make it easier to see and to use? I got a gauge so I can sort some russian stamps which have perf differences.

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
01 May 2015
05:31:30pm

re: Perforations

Scott lists perforations by horiz x vert. Gibbons goes the other way vert x horiz.I stand corrected.

I use the gauge by placing the gauge on top of the stamp and lining up the diagonal lines to intersect the perfs in the center of each "tooth". Frequently look closeup with a 10x glass.

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
Members Picture
khj

01 May 2015
06:00:17pm

re: Perforations

"Gibbons goes the other way vert x horiz."




SG and Scott both use the same convention. Top (horizontal) perforation measurement first.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

01 May 2015
06:03:43pm

re: Perforations

Since some stamps have different perforations on more than 2 sides, the general rule used by Scott is that the measurements are given in clockwise order starting from the top (e.g., for a quadrilateral stamp: Top x Right x Bottom x Left).

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
02 May 2015
01:57:07pm

re: Perforations

" .... Since the gauge is clear, what does one do to make it easier to see and to use? ...."

Often I'll slip the stamp into a spare GK102BK card so the perfs will be shown against a black background plus it makes manipulating the stamp easier.
If the stamp is mounted with a hinge I have another "102" card that has the cellophane (???) removed and is trimmed so it can be slipped beneath the mounted stamp to again have the perfs shown with the black background.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
jimjung

03 May 2015
09:06:47am

re: Perforations

I also have a clear gauge. What I do is put the stamp on the front of the gauge so I can move it back and forth to line up with the marks on the gauge.

I always measure using the spaces between the teeth because I feel this is more accurate. The teeth may be uneven or broken so this may cause a slight difference in measurement that is not correct but the spaces between the teeth should always be original from the printers.

I do sometimes put it in a holder. In these cases I will put the gauge on top of the stamp. This is good if you are moving around. For example, taking the stamp to the window to get better lighting.

An extra note. I have heard that metal gauges may change slightly in different temperatures due to expansion and contraction. Not sure this is true but I don't use metal perf gauges.

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
03 May 2015
09:54:00am

re: Perforations

You might want to check this topic from about a month ago where we Al;l discussed gauge types and the various advantages of certain ones.

Click here; perfgauges

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
nl1947

03 May 2015
11:04:51am

re: Perforations

"An extra note. I have heard that metal gauges may change slightly in different temperatures due to expansion and contraction. Not sure this is true but I don't use metal perf gauges."


This would be a common misconception as we are more familiar with metals and how they act with temperature changes.

To make it simple without engineering jargon;
if steel has an expansion/contraction rate of 1x
then aluminium would be 2x
plastics would be 4x-12x depending on the material

However this is purely academic as the change over 2cm (what the gauge measures) and using an aluminium gauge with a difference in temperature of 65 to 95 degrees F would be:

(now I will get techie) Big Grin - .02 (initial length in m) X .000023 (the aluminium coefficient of expansion in mm per degree change) X 30(the temperature difference - 95-65)+ .02 (initial length in m) = 2.0014cm.
A change that you cannot visibly measure.
Also the paper changes as much or more than the metal but that is more complicated as the grain, humidity and other factors come into play.

In conclusion, the material the gauge is made of is secondary to its accuracy. Catalogs tend to round off the perforation size so having an accurate gauge can determine the difference between a common or valuable stamp.

EDITED:

" Since the gauge is clear, what does one do to make it easier to see and to use? "


To answer John's original question. I use a clear gauge also with the stamp on top so a dark background like my desk is disturbing so I taped a white card stock to the back of the gauge. A good flexible lighting source and a magnifying glass does the trick.

Like 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
03 May 2015
11:51:21am

re: Perforations

" .... a dark background like my desk is disturbing ....

That's funny. To me at least.
I find a black background much more efficient except for some very dark stamps printed from edge to edge.
Perhaps the angle that the light strikes the stamp and gauge makes a difference ?

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
nl1947

03 May 2015
01:38:56pm

re: Perforations

less funny from my perspective - that's why we have opinions
Big Grin
Image Not Found Image Not Found

Like 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
John Macco

Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector
03 May 2015
02:47:37pm

re: Perforations

Thanks all for the information.Happy

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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