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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

 

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2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
03:31:42pm
Does anyone in the Stamporama family have info on the rare SG2039a and SG2040a GB Machins? or perhaps have these in their collection?
Cheryl
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khj
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06 Apr 2015
03:48:37pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

I think the correct SG numbers for the dagger perforations are SG2039b and SG2040b. But I don't have a recent SG catalog.

I know some dealers like to put in the word "rare", but that's a relative word. I've even seen a dealer use "extremely rare", but just checking the prices reveals that's a pretty great exaggeration. Looks like they are selling very roughly in the ~£150-£200 range (double that for a pair). I believe there are ~400 known.

What information were you interested in?


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2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
05:34:29pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Just wondering if anyone could add any information about dagger perfs, these in particular
Thanks

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nigelc
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06 Apr 2015
05:40:29pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

There's a picture of the SG2039b/SG2040b corner perf in the SG Concise catalogue. It's not particularly dagger-like to my eyes but it is much narrower than the normal corner perf.

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2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
05:56:04pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Thankyou

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Guthrum
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06 Apr 2015
06:13:01pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Yes, I appear to have both, one of each mint, 3 used of 2039a and 1 used of 2040a. The used ones are off-piece, which suggests they soaked off easily enough. These are actually the last of their sort I have - my final Machins (gold heads) are dated 2000, except the few unsorted odds and ends I have accumulated since.

Here they are (you can tell their vintage by the Amstrad-generated tabs!):

Image Not Found

You can see that I used to leave spaces for up to 4 used stamps, which would be substituted as better copies turned up. The two blue ones top right remained unidentified.

It sounds as if they might be of more use to you than to me? (If indeed they are the right stamps - I hope they are correctly identified.)

THE NEXT MORNING...

I should have left my Machin book upstairs...

I posted the above directly from my email inbox without looking at the rest of the thread: I didn't really think I had stamps worth £200! Clearly these are not 'dagger cut' as the post below shows. A case of catalogue renumbering, but does anyone have a date for these 'dagger cut' stamps?

I must confess that I view this whole business of 'die cut errors' with cynicism. We all know that errors when detected at the printers must be binned, and no doubt errors are binned. No surprise at all, then, when somehow - and it happens far too often - the occasional error is 'overlooked', appears in dealers' stocks, and is priced to extract the maximum amount from collectors. This seems no different to me than trading card manufacturers releasing one card in minimal numbers to generate 'rarity'.

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nigelc
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06 Apr 2015
06:31:23pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Hi Guthrum,

I'm brand new to this game so these are the first potential SG 2039b/2040b that I've looked at. I'm using the numbering from the SG 2010 GB Concise which may now be out of date.

The stamps here all look to me to match SG's images for SG 2039/2040 with the spade end (my term) corner perfs.


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khj
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06 Apr 2015
06:51:02pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

It's hard to tell, since it is a group picture -- but I don't see any dagger perfs there.

I'll pilfer a pic this evening and upload it later. Once you see what it looks like, you can't miss it.

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khj
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06 Apr 2015
07:31:43pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

That's it! Thanks, Anglophile.

These were only available to Philatelic Bureau subscribers as singles, but most of them received the normal die cuts, not the dagger die cut errors.

I don't have the most recent SG, but I was under the impression that the dagger perforations were the "b" suffix and the imperforate errors were the "a" suffix. I thought the "a" suffix for the dagger perforations were from the older catalogs. Maybe someone with an SG even newer than Nigel's can check.

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2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
08:37:58pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

So difficult for the amateur like myself to identify...Thanks Chris for the closeup photo....

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sheepshanks
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07 Apr 2015
05:50:37pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

The SG 2014 concise lists them as 2nd.class, 2039b. perf 14.5x14, die cut, (22/6/1998)

1st Class, 2040b perf and date as 2nd. Cat val used 80p and 1.50 respectively. Mint GB 250 pounds apiece.

The catalogue states that they were Walsall sheet printings that were sent to the Philatelic Bureau and supplied to collectors requiring individual stamps.
Nice if you have a few mint copies.
Vic

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2010ccg

07 Apr 2015
08:08:04pm
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Thanks guys !

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

04 May 2015
02:00:13am
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

This is one of the images that illustrate what you are looking for that can be found at Roy Simpson's Machin Mania Site

Image Not Found

Click here for more information.
Daggar Perfs

Rounded battlements, dagger corners.
It would be easier to see on a black background.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
2010ccg

04 May 2015
05:19:00am
re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Thankyou....off to check my stash!!!!

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Author/Postings
2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
03:31:42pm

Does anyone in the Stamporama family have info on the rare SG2039a and SG2040a GB Machins? or perhaps have these in their collection?
Cheryl

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this post
Members Picture
khj

06 Apr 2015
03:48:37pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

I think the correct SG numbers for the dagger perforations are SG2039b and SG2040b. But I don't have a recent SG catalog.

I know some dealers like to put in the word "rare", but that's a relative word. I've even seen a dealer use "extremely rare", but just checking the prices reveals that's a pretty great exaggeration. Looks like they are selling very roughly in the ~£150-£200 range (double that for a pair). I believe there are ~400 known.

What information were you interested in?


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this post
2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
05:34:29pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Just wondering if anyone could add any information about dagger perfs, these in particular
Thanks

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
nigelc

06 Apr 2015
05:40:29pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

There's a picture of the SG2039b/SG2040b corner perf in the SG Concise catalogue. It's not particularly dagger-like to my eyes but it is much narrower than the normal corner perf.

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this post
2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
05:56:04pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Thankyou

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Guthrum

06 Apr 2015
06:13:01pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Yes, I appear to have both, one of each mint, 3 used of 2039a and 1 used of 2040a. The used ones are off-piece, which suggests they soaked off easily enough. These are actually the last of their sort I have - my final Machins (gold heads) are dated 2000, except the few unsorted odds and ends I have accumulated since.

Here they are (you can tell their vintage by the Amstrad-generated tabs!):

Image Not Found

You can see that I used to leave spaces for up to 4 used stamps, which would be substituted as better copies turned up. The two blue ones top right remained unidentified.

It sounds as if they might be of more use to you than to me? (If indeed they are the right stamps - I hope they are correctly identified.)

THE NEXT MORNING...

I should have left my Machin book upstairs...

I posted the above directly from my email inbox without looking at the rest of the thread: I didn't really think I had stamps worth £200! Clearly these are not 'dagger cut' as the post below shows. A case of catalogue renumbering, but does anyone have a date for these 'dagger cut' stamps?

I must confess that I view this whole business of 'die cut errors' with cynicism. We all know that errors when detected at the printers must be binned, and no doubt errors are binned. No surprise at all, then, when somehow - and it happens far too often - the occasional error is 'overlooked', appears in dealers' stocks, and is priced to extract the maximum amount from collectors. This seems no different to me than trading card manufacturers releasing one card in minimal numbers to generate 'rarity'.

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Login to Like
this post
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nigelc

06 Apr 2015
06:31:23pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Hi Guthrum,

I'm brand new to this game so these are the first potential SG 2039b/2040b that I've looked at. I'm using the numbering from the SG 2010 GB Concise which may now be out of date.

The stamps here all look to me to match SG's images for SG 2039/2040 with the spade end (my term) corner perfs.


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this post
Members Picture
khj

06 Apr 2015
06:51:02pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

It's hard to tell, since it is a group picture -- but I don't see any dagger perfs there.

I'll pilfer a pic this evening and upload it later. Once you see what it looks like, you can't miss it.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

06 Apr 2015
07:31:43pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

That's it! Thanks, Anglophile.

These were only available to Philatelic Bureau subscribers as singles, but most of them received the normal die cuts, not the dagger die cut errors.

I don't have the most recent SG, but I was under the impression that the dagger perforations were the "b" suffix and the imperforate errors were the "a" suffix. I thought the "a" suffix for the dagger perforations were from the older catalogs. Maybe someone with an SG even newer than Nigel's can check.

Like
Login to Like
this post
2010ccg

06 Apr 2015
08:37:58pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

So difficult for the amateur like myself to identify...Thanks Chris for the closeup photo....

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
sheepshanks

07 Apr 2015
05:50:37pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

The SG 2014 concise lists them as 2nd.class, 2039b. perf 14.5x14, die cut, (22/6/1998)

1st Class, 2040b perf and date as 2nd. Cat val used 80p and 1.50 respectively. Mint GB 250 pounds apiece.

The catalogue states that they were Walsall sheet printings that were sent to the Philatelic Bureau and supplied to collectors requiring individual stamps.
Nice if you have a few mint copies.
Vic

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1 Member
likes this post.
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2010ccg

07 Apr 2015
08:08:04pm

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Thanks guys !

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 May 2015
02:00:13am

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

This is one of the images that illustrate what you are looking for that can be found at Roy Simpson's Machin Mania Site

Image Not Found

Click here for more information.
Daggar Perfs

Rounded battlements, dagger corners.
It would be easier to see on a black background.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
2010ccg

04 May 2015
05:19:00am

re: Dagger Perfs 1998 GB Machin

Thankyou....off to check my stash!!!!

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this post
        

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