04:13:46pm
I was thinking of the creation of 2 new topics: "Auction Notes and Notices" and "Approval Notes and Notices" with something like the following as its rules:
1) Promotion of your own newly listed auction items and approval books are permitted
2) Notes regarding listings (added pages, books being closed, etc.) permitted
3) Notices and Notes regarding non-Stamporama items are prohibited.
4) Self promotion of stamp stores or other off site venues prohibited.
5) Third party advertising absolutely prohibited - attempted circumvention of this provision may result in loss of auction and/or approval privileges. Egregious violations may be grounds for expulsion from membership in Stamporama.
6) All posts in this section of the Discussion Board are limited to 60 days for approval books related posts and 14 days for Auction related posts and may be deleted by moderators, without notice, upon expiration of these time periods. Posts should be removed by the author if the purpose for the post expires before the end of these time periods.
7) Responses to posts in this section are limited to requests for clarification or amended comments by the author of the original posts. All other responses may be deleted by moderators without notice.
This can be a wide open discussion with suggestions and comment. However, if you oppose the idea, I would like something more than a simple "no."
Comments?
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Bobby, as your idea now stands, I personally do not have a problem with it. I would say that I would like the postings to include as much detail as possible (eg. country, year range, mint or used, etc.) in a concise matter so a member can make a good decision as to whether to visit the seller's listings. A posting saying something like "I just listed a bunch of MNH stamps" would be a waste in my opinion. Saying instead "I just listed issues from Japan, used, from about the 1980-2010 era" would tell me much more needed info.
This area can also be used for sellers to alert members as to their pending absence due to vacation, illness, etc.
Mike in NC / meostamps
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What about allowing someone to post under the existing categories if they have something to sell? Do we need a separate category? As long as the title of the post is clearly about items being sold (e.g., "Selling: Hong Kong used stamps" as the heading under Asia/Other category).
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06:18:32pm
Afraid that's a non starter, Peter. It has been suggested several times and opposition has consistently been overwhelming. I myself suggested it a while back and my ears still burn! 
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Peter said,
"What about allowing someone to post under the existing categories if they have something to sell?"
Back in the day (when the only on-line philatelic discussion group was rec. collecting.stamps.discuss on Usenet), sellers were second only to spammers in sabotaging our efforts to have worthwhile discussions, even though they had their own Usenet group. Stamp collectors and stamp sellers are different animals who cannot successfully interbreed or even cohabitate, at least in the context philatelic discussion boards. Were we to allow sellers to post in discussions, we would soon have something like this:
Collector: Can someone please identify this stamp?
Seller: I just bought a huge specialized collection of that stamp. Send me $1,000 and it's yours. Postage extra.
Bob
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07:43:31pm
Good point, Bob. I wasn't around back then, but I can see how something like that could get out of hand. BTW, I see little difference between obnoxious spammers and obnoxious opportunists who would do that. I will never advocate hijacking someone's discussion thread to spam in that manner.
However, I do not believe that was what Peter was suggesting. Correct me if I am wrong, Peter, but I interpret your suggestion as original posts identical to those now acceptable in the "For Sale" topic. If we didn't have the "For Sale" topic, I would be zealously pursuing Peter's suggestion. As it is, while I would have no problem with the implementation of Peter's suggestion, I cannot get too excited about it not being considered too seriously as what is in place at present is more than adequate.
In fact, the "For Sale" section of the DB is very under utilized. Until I see a whole lot more being posted under that topic, I am very happy with what we have.
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Bob & Bobby,
From what I read, I am assuming that the 2 new topics that Bobby refers to in his OP would be listed at the very end of the categories list, correct?? Below the 'For sale' category. That way the discussion part of the board can be kept clear of such messages as it is now and preserved.
Please correct me if I am wrong. If correct, I would have no problem with them there. I can read them or not, I am a big (6'6") boy and can make my own decisions. (providing Geraldine lets me, hehe)
Mike in NC / meostamps
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Bob, I would not want my requests for item identification to become hijacked by someone selling something similar; I wasn't suggesting that. I suggested that instead of having a new discussion category for sales, that someone could start a new post for their sales items within any of the existing categories and that those posts be clearly labelled as sales posts. If one doesn't want to read sales posts, one would just ignore any that begin with "Selling:" for example. For the scenario you mentioned, I would support the moderators disallowing that type of post hijacking.
Cheers,
Peter
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Hi Bobby;
Yes I think your proposal and guidelines are spot on and would be very useful. Especially if
more text is allowed that an auction "title", say a couple of sentences or so, or maybe a
short list of what British colonies are in the offering. This would save prospective buyers a
bunch of time in looking for say; Pitcairn Is.
Pitcairn Is. would be hard to find in approval books if there are 20 or so different nations
represented in one book
Just chillin'....
TuskenRaider
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A bit of transparency about the resolution of these issues would be very welcome. There are several mentions of "getting shot down" and "probably won't go anywhere." Why is it a foregone conclusion that these things can't change, and if not, why not? I suppose the point I'm trying to make is who is making these decisions? I've always been a bit unclear as to the process and I'd really appreciate some clarification as to how these decisions are made and by whom. Does the Volunteer Committee vote on these matters or do one or two members control the outcome? Does Roy have veto power over any changes? (which he probably should I suppose).
My curiosity always gets me into trouble, but I really want to know how this works! It all seems so veiled in mystery! Has there been a explanatory thread here in the past that I missed?
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08:05:04am
People who have mentioned things getting "shot down" have likely asked the membership and/or the VC before and the suggestion was not "voted in" by either. Some changes are made through discussions like these. A change to the bylaws would go to the VC. They would discuss and vote on a change and then someone would inform the membership. This is not a quick process so answers don't come the next day.
Roy does not have veto power. He is kind enough to let us use his server for free and we advertise for him for free in the upper right corner.
I hope that helps!
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Roy was once the president of this group, and, as such, immensely important to our growth. He is no longer president nor a member of the VC. We consult him often, however, in matters relating to the server, which he supplies, for free in exchange for a small space on our upper right corner. It's a great deal for the club on a number of fronts. This is a long-winded way of saying Roy has no input into these decisions, and no voice nor veto power on the VC.
The history of shooting things down
The topic of promoting one's auctions has come up many times. I am likely its foremost opponent, as some will tell you. I won't use this space to explain my position, which hasn't changed, but to explain the decision-making process.
In most things, there are three ways things happen: the VC votes on stuff, and majority carries the day. There are five active VC members: me, Tim, Bobby, Jan-Simon, and Arno. Several others are no longer active, though listed. We discuss disciplinary actions, revisions to our bylaws, and changes to the site or the structure or the process or.....
the second way is via Task Forces. Ralph headed up approvals and Arno a revision to the discussion board. In both cases, they had help from others. They are given carte blanche to engineer solutions in their domains.
Finally, there's just doing things. For instance, as auctioneer, I have latitude to take actions to keep the aucton running; and Tim, as webmaster, implements changes he thinks will improve the site. He is often soliciting ideas or acting upon suggestions, so it's not executive fiat, and especially not with the web.
I have simplified things immensely in the interest in clarity, but that's pretty much how things work. Immense authority is given to those who take responsibility to see things implemented. It's a management approach. And, except on the VC and in the TFs, it's not a democracy.
I have left out lots of things, like Ralph's articles and Kelly's new gazette and Kelly's rambler, without which we'd be a sadder place, and for whom I have great admiration and thanks. In their own ways, these are all little autonomous fiefdoms, all with the blessing of the VC which exercises a laisser faire approach on all.
So that's how things work.
And it's not true that I keep a red pencil with notches in it in my office for each time I successfully shoot down the self-promotion rule; it's over my bed.
David
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09:41:45am
Oops - that would be Kelly's Rambler, although I do try to help. I'm also learning, or trying to learn, some things so I can help Tim with his huge list of improvements to the site. We'll see how that goes!!
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That information is extremely enlightening and helpful to understanding the dynamics of our club. Thank you for taking the time to type up that explanation. And, thank you to those who volunteer their time to work on the VC, your efforts are appreciated!
With regards to the issue at hand, I propose separating rules for auctions and approvals. They are two entirely different venues. I agree that self-promotion for auction lots could open the floodgates to self-promotion posts. Approvals, however, are very different. While a seller could feasibly have 1,000 active auction lots, sellers have only a few dozen approval books at most.
I believe that sellers should be allowed to have some way to tell buyers that they plan to remove an old book. If the VC does not want posts in the discussion area, how about allowing sellers to move the book into a special category for books that will be closing? Or, instead of another category, add a flagged section similar to New books, only call it "Ending Soon" or something of that nature. I've had buyers ask me to notify them when I plan to close books, but I've sold to so many different folks, and since there is no way to send group messages, that just isn't feasible. I believe this option will also encourage sellers to tidy up old books as they will get a bit of last minute viewing with a new highlighting system.
Of course the problem with the added category is that it requires programming changes which generates work for Tim, while adding a discussion topic for notification of book closures and other approval announcements only requires a bit of tweaking on behalf of the moderators.
Thank you to the VC for giving member's suggestions serious consideration.
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12:33:29pm
OK folk, who says things do not happen with alacrity on Stamporama!
The VC embraced our ideas and Tim is going to make it happen. Now it is up to all of us to make it work without abuses. Like any new feature, it will have growing pains, but with the understanding and support of the good folk here, we'll make it work. Be warned, however, that Lisa and I will be ruthless in the enforcement of not only the rules I have outlined, but the aspirational goals inherent therein as well. We will not permit posts in this new section to get out of hand! The moderators will have a lot of discretionary authority to insure compliance with the few stated conditions for posting in this new section (more to come in this area later).
Now don't get antsy about the creation and implementation of this new section of the DB (to be physically located following the Buy, Sell, Trade section) as it will take time. Tim has a lot on his plate now (actually, he is always juggling multiple projects), but this item is now on his list and it will happen!
A special thanks to Michael Generali (known to all as "Michael numbers") whose back channel ideas and discussion helped take this concept and form it into something presentable.
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WOW!
Very very cool news!!! Thank you to those who helped with this upcoming change. This will really fill a need here on SOR!! Yahooooooooo..
And now for a hearty rendition of our site's theme song . . .
Stamporama is the place for me,
Stamporama is where I wanna be,
Lordy Lordy love my Stampooooooraaaaaammmmmaaaa!
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"Stamporama is the place for me,
Stamporama is where I wanna be, "
For some strange reason, I started hearing the theme music for "Green Acres" -- lol!
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Thank you, Bobby for your help on this.
As David said, this is something that has been requested for many years.
So, PLEASE!!!! SOR members, let's do this right! Also, let's respect the wishes of many members here who do not want this site to be overly commercialized. When this does becomes available to us (let's not bug Tim about it either), let's keep the postings as short as possible, sweet and to the point. - That is not a rule. That is just a suggested request.
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I enjoyed reading this ... as a new member, it shed light on how the club works. Neat! I know I'm way late to the party with this question and I'm sure it's been asked before but... is there a way for a member to leave a short want list and maybe another member could respond with a scan and an asking pruce...
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Ernie, right now, the best I can suggest is that you post your want list in the 'Wanted to buy" section. A fellow member who then has anything to offer you off that list can use the private message function of SOR to let you know what they have and what their price would be. All discussions as to price, postage/handling, payment methods, etc should be done either via private message or email directly with you and the possible seller. You can always edit your list to remove any items which you eventually get. You should indicate the condition of what you want, (mint/used/ mint never hinged, etc). It would also help get possible additional offers if you listing includes both a description of the issue in question in addition to only a catalog number as someone might not have a Scott catalog if just a number is used but would recognize the issue with a decent description of it.
Mike in NC / meostamps
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
26 Mar 2015
04:13:46pm
Michael78651 and I started a discussion in another thread re the creation of an area of the DB wherein limited self promotion would be permitted to facilitate Approval and Auction endeavors. This discussion is entirely theoretical and nothing will likely come of it, but I, personally, believe it has merit. Anyway, I would like to at least discuss the "ins and outs" of this proposal.
I was thinking of the creation of 2 new topics: "Auction Notes and Notices" and "Approval Notes and Notices" with something like the following as its rules:
1) Promotion of your own newly listed auction items and approval books are permitted
2) Notes regarding listings (added pages, books being closed, etc.) permitted
3) Notices and Notes regarding non-Stamporama items are prohibited.
4) Self promotion of stamp stores or other off site venues prohibited.
5) Third party advertising absolutely prohibited - attempted circumvention of this provision may result in loss of auction and/or approval privileges. Egregious violations may be grounds for expulsion from membership in Stamporama.
6) All posts in this section of the Discussion Board are limited to 60 days for approval books related posts and 14 days for Auction related posts and may be deleted by moderators, without notice, upon expiration of these time periods. Posts should be removed by the author if the purpose for the post expires before the end of these time periods.
7) Responses to posts in this section are limited to requests for clarification or amended comments by the author of the original posts. All other responses may be deleted by moderators without notice.
This can be a wide open discussion with suggestions and comment. However, if you oppose the idea, I would like something more than a simple "no."
Comments?
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Bobby, as your idea now stands, I personally do not have a problem with it. I would say that I would like the postings to include as much detail as possible (eg. country, year range, mint or used, etc.) in a concise matter so a member can make a good decision as to whether to visit the seller's listings. A posting saying something like "I just listed a bunch of MNH stamps" would be a waste in my opinion. Saying instead "I just listed issues from Japan, used, from about the 1980-2010 era" would tell me much more needed info.
This area can also be used for sellers to alert members as to their pending absence due to vacation, illness, etc.
Mike in NC / meostamps
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05:44:38pm
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
What about allowing someone to post under the existing categories if they have something to sell? Do we need a separate category? As long as the title of the post is clearly about items being sold (e.g., "Selling: Hong Kong used stamps" as the heading under Asia/Other category).
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
26 Mar 2015
06:18:32pm
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Afraid that's a non starter, Peter. It has been suggested several times and opposition has consistently been overwhelming. I myself suggested it a while back and my ears still burn!
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Peter said,
"What about allowing someone to post under the existing categories if they have something to sell?"
Back in the day (when the only on-line philatelic discussion group was rec. collecting.stamps.discuss on Usenet), sellers were second only to spammers in sabotaging our efforts to have worthwhile discussions, even though they had their own Usenet group. Stamp collectors and stamp sellers are different animals who cannot successfully interbreed or even cohabitate, at least in the context philatelic discussion boards. Were we to allow sellers to post in discussions, we would soon have something like this:
Collector: Can someone please identify this stamp?
Seller: I just bought a huge specialized collection of that stamp. Send me $1,000 and it's yours. Postage extra.
Bob
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
26 Mar 2015
07:43:31pm
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Good point, Bob. I wasn't around back then, but I can see how something like that could get out of hand. BTW, I see little difference between obnoxious spammers and obnoxious opportunists who would do that. I will never advocate hijacking someone's discussion thread to spam in that manner.
However, I do not believe that was what Peter was suggesting. Correct me if I am wrong, Peter, but I interpret your suggestion as original posts identical to those now acceptable in the "For Sale" topic. If we didn't have the "For Sale" topic, I would be zealously pursuing Peter's suggestion. As it is, while I would have no problem with the implementation of Peter's suggestion, I cannot get too excited about it not being considered too seriously as what is in place at present is more than adequate.
In fact, the "For Sale" section of the DB is very under utilized. Until I see a whole lot more being posted under that topic, I am very happy with what we have.
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Bob & Bobby,
From what I read, I am assuming that the 2 new topics that Bobby refers to in his OP would be listed at the very end of the categories list, correct?? Below the 'For sale' category. That way the discussion part of the board can be kept clear of such messages as it is now and preserved.
Please correct me if I am wrong. If correct, I would have no problem with them there. I can read them or not, I am a big (6'6") boy and can make my own decisions. (providing Geraldine lets me, hehe)
Mike in NC / meostamps
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08:23:40pm
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Bob, I would not want my requests for item identification to become hijacked by someone selling something similar; I wasn't suggesting that. I suggested that instead of having a new discussion category for sales, that someone could start a new post for their sales items within any of the existing categories and that those posts be clearly labelled as sales posts. If one doesn't want to read sales posts, one would just ignore any that begin with "Selling:" for example. For the scenario you mentioned, I would support the moderators disallowing that type of post hijacking.
Cheers,
Peter
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Hi Bobby;
Yes I think your proposal and guidelines are spot on and would be very useful. Especially if
more text is allowed that an auction "title", say a couple of sentences or so, or maybe a
short list of what British colonies are in the offering. This would save prospective buyers a
bunch of time in looking for say; Pitcairn Is.
Pitcairn Is. would be hard to find in approval books if there are 20 or so different nations
represented in one book
Just chillin'....
TuskenRaider
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Approvals
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
A bit of transparency about the resolution of these issues would be very welcome. There are several mentions of "getting shot down" and "probably won't go anywhere." Why is it a foregone conclusion that these things can't change, and if not, why not? I suppose the point I'm trying to make is who is making these decisions? I've always been a bit unclear as to the process and I'd really appreciate some clarification as to how these decisions are made and by whom. Does the Volunteer Committee vote on these matters or do one or two members control the outcome? Does Roy have veto power over any changes? (which he probably should I suppose).
My curiosity always gets me into trouble, but I really want to know how this works! It all seems so veiled in mystery! Has there been a explanatory thread here in the past that I missed?
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
27 Mar 2015
08:05:04am
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
People who have mentioned things getting "shot down" have likely asked the membership and/or the VC before and the suggestion was not "voted in" by either. Some changes are made through discussions like these. A change to the bylaws would go to the VC. They would discuss and vote on a change and then someone would inform the membership. This is not a quick process so answers don't come the next day.
Roy does not have veto power. He is kind enough to let us use his server for free and we advertise for him for free in the upper right corner.
I hope that helps!
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Roy was once the president of this group, and, as such, immensely important to our growth. He is no longer president nor a member of the VC. We consult him often, however, in matters relating to the server, which he supplies, for free in exchange for a small space on our upper right corner. It's a great deal for the club on a number of fronts. This is a long-winded way of saying Roy has no input into these decisions, and no voice nor veto power on the VC.
The history of shooting things down
The topic of promoting one's auctions has come up many times. I am likely its foremost opponent, as some will tell you. I won't use this space to explain my position, which hasn't changed, but to explain the decision-making process.
In most things, there are three ways things happen: the VC votes on stuff, and majority carries the day. There are five active VC members: me, Tim, Bobby, Jan-Simon, and Arno. Several others are no longer active, though listed. We discuss disciplinary actions, revisions to our bylaws, and changes to the site or the structure or the process or.....
the second way is via Task Forces. Ralph headed up approvals and Arno a revision to the discussion board. In both cases, they had help from others. They are given carte blanche to engineer solutions in their domains.
Finally, there's just doing things. For instance, as auctioneer, I have latitude to take actions to keep the aucton running; and Tim, as webmaster, implements changes he thinks will improve the site. He is often soliciting ideas or acting upon suggestions, so it's not executive fiat, and especially not with the web.
I have simplified things immensely in the interest in clarity, but that's pretty much how things work. Immense authority is given to those who take responsibility to see things implemented. It's a management approach. And, except on the VC and in the TFs, it's not a democracy.
I have left out lots of things, like Ralph's articles and Kelly's new gazette and Kelly's rambler, without which we'd be a sadder place, and for whom I have great admiration and thanks. In their own ways, these are all little autonomous fiefdoms, all with the blessing of the VC which exercises a laisser faire approach on all.
So that's how things work.
And it's not true that I keep a red pencil with notches in it in my office for each time I successfully shoot down the self-promotion rule; it's over my bed.
David
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27 Mar 2015
09:41:45am
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Oops - that would be Kelly's Rambler, although I do try to help. I'm also learning, or trying to learn, some things so I can help Tim with his huge list of improvements to the site. We'll see how that goes!!
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Approvals
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
That information is extremely enlightening and helpful to understanding the dynamics of our club. Thank you for taking the time to type up that explanation. And, thank you to those who volunteer their time to work on the VC, your efforts are appreciated!
With regards to the issue at hand, I propose separating rules for auctions and approvals. They are two entirely different venues. I agree that self-promotion for auction lots could open the floodgates to self-promotion posts. Approvals, however, are very different. While a seller could feasibly have 1,000 active auction lots, sellers have only a few dozen approval books at most.
I believe that sellers should be allowed to have some way to tell buyers that they plan to remove an old book. If the VC does not want posts in the discussion area, how about allowing sellers to move the book into a special category for books that will be closing? Or, instead of another category, add a flagged section similar to New books, only call it "Ending Soon" or something of that nature. I've had buyers ask me to notify them when I plan to close books, but I've sold to so many different folks, and since there is no way to send group messages, that just isn't feasible. I believe this option will also encourage sellers to tidy up old books as they will get a bit of last minute viewing with a new highlighting system.
Of course the problem with the added category is that it requires programming changes which generates work for Tim, while adding a discussion topic for notification of book closures and other approval announcements only requires a bit of tweaking on behalf of the moderators.
Thank you to the VC for giving member's suggestions serious consideration.
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28 Mar 2015
12:33:29pm
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
OK folk, who says things do not happen with alacrity on Stamporama!
The VC embraced our ideas and Tim is going to make it happen. Now it is up to all of us to make it work without abuses. Like any new feature, it will have growing pains, but with the understanding and support of the good folk here, we'll make it work. Be warned, however, that Lisa and I will be ruthless in the enforcement of not only the rules I have outlined, but the aspirational goals inherent therein as well. We will not permit posts in this new section to get out of hand! The moderators will have a lot of discretionary authority to insure compliance with the few stated conditions for posting in this new section (more to come in this area later).
Now don't get antsy about the creation and implementation of this new section of the DB (to be physically located following the Buy, Sell, Trade section) as it will take time. Tim has a lot on his plate now (actually, he is always juggling multiple projects), but this item is now on his list and it will happen!
A special thanks to Michael Generali (known to all as "Michael numbers") whose back channel ideas and discussion helped take this concept and form it into something presentable.
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Approvals
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
WOW!
Very very cool news!!! Thank you to those who helped with this upcoming change. This will really fill a need here on SOR!! Yahooooooooo..
And now for a hearty rendition of our site's theme song . . .
Stamporama is the place for me,
Stamporama is where I wanna be,
Lordy Lordy love my Stampooooooraaaaaammmmmaaaa!
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likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
"Stamporama is the place for me,
Stamporama is where I wanna be, "
For some strange reason, I started hearing the theme music for "Green Acres" -- lol!
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Thank you, Bobby for your help on this.
As David said, this is something that has been requested for many years.
So, PLEASE!!!! SOR members, let's do this right! Also, let's respect the wishes of many members here who do not want this site to be overly commercialized. When this does becomes available to us (let's not bug Tim about it either), let's keep the postings as short as possible, sweet and to the point. - That is not a rule. That is just a suggested request.
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
I enjoyed reading this ... as a new member, it shed light on how the club works. Neat! I know I'm way late to the party with this question and I'm sure it's been asked before but... is there a way for a member to leave a short want list and maybe another member could respond with a scan and an asking pruce...
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re: Ideas relating to possible area of the DB which permits limited self promotion
Ernie, right now, the best I can suggest is that you post your want list in the 'Wanted to buy" section. A fellow member who then has anything to offer you off that list can use the private message function of SOR to let you know what they have and what their price would be. All discussions as to price, postage/handling, payment methods, etc should be done either via private message or email directly with you and the possible seller. You can always edit your list to remove any items which you eventually get. You should indicate the condition of what you want, (mint/used/ mint never hinged, etc). It would also help get possible additional offers if you listing includes both a description of the issue in question in addition to only a catalog number as someone might not have a Scott catalog if just a number is used but would recognize the issue with a decent description of it.
Mike in NC / meostamps
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