Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
"Another way to ask this is whether the age of a cert makes an impact on you as a buyer. For example, if you see a stamp at auction with a 1970 cert, does it make any difference on how you value the item if the same stamp was offered with a 2015 cert. Same assumptions as above."
One thing that came up recently is china-clay paper on some US issues..... It's been abolished....
Science and infomation is always being update.... a second cert always???? but sometimes it makes sense.
Something I don't have to worry about
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As a buyer I would agree that the age of the cert matters more for certain stamps. For example, if I was buying a high-dollar Columbian Expo (US 241 to 245), I wouldn't care if the cert is 25 years old. For issues that are heavily faked, it would concern me if the cert was old. Imaging technology and software was in the stone age 25 years ago.
Lars
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Hi Anglophile;
Yes it may be true that technology is available that makes it easier to fool people, however that
would not have been available 25 years ago. The certification was based on techniques that
were available then. And your stamp passed all the known tests. So no, I don't think it would be
worth the extra expense.
An exception would be a high dollar item (>$1,000.00) and buyer will pay for the newer certifica-
tion. Don't spend money to satisfy a tire-kicker. If buyer is willing to pay for certification then the
buyer is not a tire-kicker, but a serious buyer.
In real estate, you are offering property that is in the range of >$100,000.00 or much higher.
The seller is required by law in most states to provide a disclosure document, that outlines known
property defects. If the seller lies or covers up obvious defects especially ones requiring costly
repairs, they can be held accountable by law and be sued, or the real estate contract be declared
null-and-void.
The buyer is allowed several days after a mutually agreed upon contract to buy, to get a physi-
cal property inspection to try to determine any potential problems. If problems are found, the
buyer can request the seller to fix, or get out of contract. The buyer always pays for this service
and it can run from $200 - $500 or more.
The point is you have a serious buyer who has a binding contract to buy and can get a second
opinion from a professional inspector, but must pay for it, out of pocket.
If you have a buyer of a stamp in excess of $1,000.00, it would be wise to have a written sales
agreement. This way the buyer can't just walk away after you have done everything to satisfy
their concerns. I think your buyer should be expected to pay for any new certifications, period!
Also an escrow service would give buyer less concerns in this regard.
Just my views on expensive sales....
TuskenRaider
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Just to put a slightly different slant on this:
What does a buyer do, having bought a certificated stamp and it becomes apparent that the certificate is wrong?
I spotted one on eBay a couple of years back. I imagine that the seller quite confidently listed his wares and possibly reaped the rewards.
I don't know what happened post sale but details about the certificate got a lot of attention on another forum. Of course this is not an isolated incident.
If I were a buyer of an item with a certificate, I would more likely look at who issued it. There seem to have been an awful lot of certificates issued by total unknowns or individuals who appear to have overstretched their field of expertise.
Back to the original question. I agree with what has been said about re-certification. This should only be necessary, if the subject material has been subject to new research in recent times; perhaps on matters concerning overprints or plate numbers, for example.
Veering off slightly, I have always been surprised when someone has gone to the trouble of obtaining a certificate, when really it wasn't necessary. Some that I have seen were concerning overprints on lower end issues, where there has never been any contention before and specialist collectors know their onions anyway.
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"Another way to ask this is whether the age of a cert makes an impact on you as a buyer. For example, if you see a stamp at auction with a 1970 cert, does it make any difference on how you value the item if the same stamp was offered with a 2015 cert. Same assumptions as above."
One thing that came up recently is china-clay paper on some US issues..... It's been abolished....
Science and infomation is always being update.... a second cert always???? but sometimes it makes sense.
Something I don't have to worry about
Login to Like
this post
re: Old expert certificates
As a buyer I would agree that the age of the cert matters more for certain stamps. For example, if I was buying a high-dollar Columbian Expo (US 241 to 245), I wouldn't care if the cert is 25 years old. For issues that are heavily faked, it would concern me if the cert was old. Imaging technology and software was in the stone age 25 years ago.
Lars
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this post
re: Old expert certificates
Hi Anglophile;
Yes it may be true that technology is available that makes it easier to fool people, however that
would not have been available 25 years ago. The certification was based on techniques that
were available then. And your stamp passed all the known tests. So no, I don't think it would be
worth the extra expense.
An exception would be a high dollar item (>$1,000.00) and buyer will pay for the newer certifica-
tion. Don't spend money to satisfy a tire-kicker. If buyer is willing to pay for certification then the
buyer is not a tire-kicker, but a serious buyer.
In real estate, you are offering property that is in the range of >$100,000.00 or much higher.
The seller is required by law in most states to provide a disclosure document, that outlines known
property defects. If the seller lies or covers up obvious defects especially ones requiring costly
repairs, they can be held accountable by law and be sued, or the real estate contract be declared
null-and-void.
The buyer is allowed several days after a mutually agreed upon contract to buy, to get a physi-
cal property inspection to try to determine any potential problems. If problems are found, the
buyer can request the seller to fix, or get out of contract. The buyer always pays for this service
and it can run from $200 - $500 or more.
The point is you have a serious buyer who has a binding contract to buy and can get a second
opinion from a professional inspector, but must pay for it, out of pocket.
If you have a buyer of a stamp in excess of $1,000.00, it would be wise to have a written sales
agreement. This way the buyer can't just walk away after you have done everything to satisfy
their concerns. I think your buyer should be expected to pay for any new certifications, period!
Also an escrow service would give buyer less concerns in this regard.
Just my views on expensive sales....
TuskenRaider
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this post
re: Old expert certificates
Just to put a slightly different slant on this:
What does a buyer do, having bought a certificated stamp and it becomes apparent that the certificate is wrong?
I spotted one on eBay a couple of years back. I imagine that the seller quite confidently listed his wares and possibly reaped the rewards.
I don't know what happened post sale but details about the certificate got a lot of attention on another forum. Of course this is not an isolated incident.
If I were a buyer of an item with a certificate, I would more likely look at who issued it. There seem to have been an awful lot of certificates issued by total unknowns or individuals who appear to have overstretched their field of expertise.
Back to the original question. I agree with what has been said about re-certification. This should only be necessary, if the subject material has been subject to new research in recent times; perhaps on matters concerning overprints or plate numbers, for example.
Veering off slightly, I have always been surprised when someone has gone to the trouble of obtaining a certificate, when really it wasn't necessary. Some that I have seen were concerning overprints on lower end issues, where there has never been any contention before and specialist collectors know their onions anyway.
Login to Like
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