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Europe/Other : Belgium Railway ID

 

Author
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GeoStamper
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Steve

13 Feb 2015
04:28:18pm
I don't have any Belgian RRPPs that are imperf, but I am interested in learning what you find out.

Ii did find this auction that has imperfs, but doesn't have this issue. Might be related?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Belgium-1915-Railway-Parcels-set-10c-10Fr-IMPERF-cat-1050-/251826793164?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa20beacc

-Steve
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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Feb 2015
05:23:16pm
re: Belgium Railway ID

Here too, this stamp is listed as 2fr orange-brown/brownish-green but no mention that I can see of imperforate.

The link provided notes Stanley Gibbons, perhaps someone has a SG Belgium that can shed more light on this?

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

13 Feb 2015
05:29:20pm
re: Belgium Railway ID

Michel makes no mention of imperforates.

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

13 Feb 2015
05:32:46pm

Approvals
re: Belgium Railway ID

I must check my "Official catalogue of Belgium" but at this moment I do not recall ever seeing imperforate railway stamps in any listing. I assume this is some kind of proof.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

13 Feb 2015
05:37:35pm
re: Belgium Railway ID

If not a proof, could always be printer remainders or waste that came onto the market.

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Feb 2015
07:37:27pm
re: Belgium Railway ID

If it were a proof - it wouldn't be in exact colours of the actual stamp though, would it? In my experience with other stamps, proofs do not match the colours of the official stamp.

I'm curious about the person on eBay that quotes the prices from SG because obviously SG must then have some type of reference, no?

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

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nl1947

13 Feb 2015
10:00:30pm
re: Belgium Railway ID

All the ones I have match the perf variety exactly.
As well they may not be proofs or remainders
Sparks auctioned a set of them
http://stampauctionnetwork.com/ik/ik1654.cfm
Now I need to find a listing - perhaps the COB will list them.

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Feb 2015
11:42:58pm
re: Belgium Railway ID

Interesting they list them as imperf gutter pairs.

I'm really hoping someone has a SG Belgium catalogue or something else that can shed some light on this - you've really got me wondering.....

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snowy12
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24 Feb 2015
10:20:30pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Belgium Railway ID

Many moons ago I had a very nice collection of Belgium Railway Parcel stamps including a set of the of the imperfs.
Only have these few left now.
Image Not Found

As you can see from the 10Fr the colours match.
Brian

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nl1947

25 Feb 2015
07:29:54am
re: Belgium Railway ID

I got this from the Belgian Society

"All I can say at the moment is that 7 values are listed (1fr to 10fr) imperf at 5 euros but some values listed separately at 30 euros each. My impression is that they are quite common imperf. I think that they are probably private re-prints."



30 Euros doesn't sound all that common?
Anyway still no definite answer.

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nl1947

04 Mar 2015
07:37:04am
re: Belgium Railway ID

A response of sorts on the imperforate Belgium railways from the Belgium Philatelic Association railway expert

"I fear there is no straightforward answer to this question. It is complicated, as I understand, by two events: (1) workers at the State Printing Works reprinted sheets of the 1892 issue and sold them to the stamp trade at a time, probably around 1900, when their wages had not been paid for a considerable while, and (2) advancing enemy troops looted stamps of the 1902 issue from the State Printing Works early in the 1914-18 War; these included stamps still imperforate.

COB is not very helpful. The information you quote has been dropped in recent years, certainly in my 1913 edition. The footnote concerning stamps on white paper being from a private issue is incomprehensible to me; a similar, and correct, footnote to the 1882 issue probably refers to the illicit printing by the unpaid workers. The whitest paper used for the 1902 issue is the thin paper used up to 1908; there used to be a footnote (2008 COB) valuing these, unmounted mint, at 10 times the ordinary valuation.

When time permits I will look at all the early issues, up to say 1923, and perhaps put the conclusions together as an article in Belgapost."


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Author/Postings
Members Picture
GeoStamper

Steve
13 Feb 2015
04:28:18pm

I don't have any Belgian RRPPs that are imperf, but I am interested in learning what you find out.

Ii did find this auction that has imperfs, but doesn't have this issue. Might be related?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Belgium-1915-Railway-Parcels-set-10c-10Fr-IMPERF-cat-1050-/251826793164?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa20beacc

-Steve

Like
Login to Like
this post

"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Feb 2015
05:23:16pm

re: Belgium Railway ID

Here too, this stamp is listed as 2fr orange-brown/brownish-green but no mention that I can see of imperforate.

The link provided notes Stanley Gibbons, perhaps someone has a SG Belgium that can shed more light on this?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
13 Feb 2015
05:29:20pm

re: Belgium Railway ID

Michel makes no mention of imperforates.

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this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
13 Feb 2015
05:32:46pm

Approvals

re: Belgium Railway ID

I must check my "Official catalogue of Belgium" but at this moment I do not recall ever seeing imperforate railway stamps in any listing. I assume this is some kind of proof.

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this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
13 Feb 2015
05:37:35pm

re: Belgium Railway ID

If not a proof, could always be printer remainders or waste that came onto the market.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Feb 2015
07:37:27pm

re: Belgium Railway ID

If it were a proof - it wouldn't be in exact colours of the actual stamp though, would it? In my experience with other stamps, proofs do not match the colours of the official stamp.

I'm curious about the person on eBay that quotes the prices from SG because obviously SG must then have some type of reference, no?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
nl1947

13 Feb 2015
10:00:30pm

re: Belgium Railway ID

All the ones I have match the perf variety exactly.
As well they may not be proofs or remainders
Sparks auctioned a set of them
http://stampauctionnetwork.com/ik/ik1654.cfm
Now I need to find a listing - perhaps the COB will list them.

Like
Login to Like
this post

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Feb 2015
11:42:58pm

re: Belgium Railway ID

Interesting they list them as imperf gutter pairs.

I'm really hoping someone has a SG Belgium catalogue or something else that can shed some light on this - you've really got me wondering.....

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
snowy12

24 Feb 2015
10:20:30pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Belgium Railway ID

Many moons ago I had a very nice collection of Belgium Railway Parcel stamps including a set of the of the imperfs.
Only have these few left now.
Image Not Found

As you can see from the 10Fr the colours match.
Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post
nl1947

25 Feb 2015
07:29:54am

re: Belgium Railway ID

I got this from the Belgian Society

"All I can say at the moment is that 7 values are listed (1fr to 10fr) imperf at 5 euros but some values listed separately at 30 euros each. My impression is that they are quite common imperf. I think that they are probably private re-prints."



30 Euros doesn't sound all that common?
Anyway still no definite answer.

Like
Login to Like
this post
nl1947

04 Mar 2015
07:37:04am

re: Belgium Railway ID

A response of sorts on the imperforate Belgium railways from the Belgium Philatelic Association railway expert

"I fear there is no straightforward answer to this question. It is complicated, as I understand, by two events: (1) workers at the State Printing Works reprinted sheets of the 1892 issue and sold them to the stamp trade at a time, probably around 1900, when their wages had not been paid for a considerable while, and (2) advancing enemy troops looted stamps of the 1902 issue from the State Printing Works early in the 1914-18 War; these included stamps still imperforate.

COB is not very helpful. The information you quote has been dropped in recent years, certainly in my 1913 edition. The footnote concerning stamps on white paper being from a private issue is incomprehensible to me; a similar, and correct, footnote to the 1882 issue probably refers to the illicit printing by the unpaid workers. The whitest paper used for the 1902 issue is the thin paper used up to 1908; there used to be a footnote (2008 COB) valuing these, unmounted mint, at 10 times the ordinary valuation.

When time permits I will look at all the early issues, up to say 1923, and perhaps put the conclusions together as an article in Belgapost."


Like 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
        

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