Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
What is the 'morality' of getting these franked at the local Post Office?
Recent reactions to my attempting this:-
Flat refusals - 3
Treated as if I was attempting something criminal - 1
Willingly franked them - 3
Does anybody know if counter clerks are supposed to be forbidden from doing this?
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Don't know the rules in the UK, but in the USA, we often fall victim to the stamps missing cancellation at the post office or distribution centers get destroyed by a black marker. I'd take the no cancel over the marker any day. Also, in the US, one can take the envelope to the counter and have it canceled. The clerk is required to do it on request, provided proper postage was applied to the envelope, and hand it back if so requested.
In your situation, I would seek out the clerks who did it for you in the past, and stay away from the others.
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Hi Everyone;
They probably have that rule, that they must cancel if presented with an unfranked letter,
to prevent re-use of the stamps. Here in Bitely Mich. and Brohman Mich., and also Baldwin
Mich. (all small villages) I have never had anyone refuse a request. They also will try to do
a nice neat cancel if they know that you are a stamp collector.
However the job of the route drivers where I live, way out in the woods is very challenging.
So a Christmas time I like to leave homemade cookies or something for my postal worker.
They typically share those goodies with the postal clerks, and they always remember who
gave them the goodies, If that is bribery, then I guilty as charged.
If my road is especially bad and has a big hole thru the ice near my mailbox, I sometimes
call the Bitely PO and tell them to warn the driver to be extra careful. All drivers out here
must have 4x4 vehicles.
Go with the Force....
TuskenRaider
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"no attempt has been made to frank the stamps"
Franking is the use of stamps (or other devices) to pay postage. Potter66 seems to be referring to the cancellation (or lack thereof) of stamps that were used to frank letters sent to him.
I, too, receive many letters with no obvious cancellation and other with total obliteration.
Lars
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I have never had a problem in Post Offices in the UK when asking for cancels during my annual visits.
None of my mail from the UK gets a cancel and I always take a big batch of machins 'on piece', sometimes up to 100 stamps for those dear ladies to work on. Sometimes they let me do the job which means really fine used or SON cancels! I know it may annoy other customers in the queue but it's not my fault (or problem).
The commems are soaked off and re-used. (Guilty as charged but don't feel in the least bit guilty)
Londonbus1....
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Thanks for writing all these messages. You're giving me the reminder I needed to get busy and order my new Florida Mailer's Postmark Permit. Now if I can just find a better black ink.
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I have had one postal worker in a small town flat out refuse to cancel a stamp and hand it back to me. She said it was because I could use the postmark date to fraudulently submit an entry for some contest or sweepstakes (I am not making this up). We had a lengthy discussion and she did eventually cancel it, but I left feeling a bit like a criminal. My local post office will cheerfully cancel anything I present. Know your local post office, seek out those who are willing and aware of the rules. I usually save up a bunch so I am not pestering her daily.
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Sally, USPS regulations require postal clerks to hand cancel stamps on request of customers. I would have complained to the postmaster about that clerk.
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I try to use mini-sheets on mail to my exchange partners. My Canadian friend mentioned that some were arriving without any sort of cancellation, so I now take the mail into our local postal shop, and the people are happy to use a nice date stamp on the sheets, and put the mail into the postal stream.
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Yes, it's in the DMM. I posted it here once before. It is a royal pain in the butt to try to find things in the DMM. For those who haven't tried to find something in the DMM, you're lucky. It's no wonder that the clerks don't know what's in it.
Anyway, I'll try to find it again. It is under favor cancels, or something like that.
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The hand-back policy is in the Postal Operations Manual. Section 231.4a (Hand-back Service) reads, in part:
"(1) When a customer personally presents an addressed or unaddressed envelope, postal card, or other item described in section 231.63 to a Postal Service employee for postmarking, the Postal Service employee must examine the item to ensure that it is clearly intended for philatelic purposes. Bill payments, tax returns, applications, and/or other date-sensitive mail cannot be handed back. Only after careful examination should a philatelic item be postmarked and handed back to the customer/collector.
(2) The envelope, card, or other item does not enter the mailstream. All such materials requesting postmarking must bear uncanceled postage at the applicable First-Class Mail rate... "
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11:04:41am
" ... Sally, USPS regulations require postal clerks to hand cancel stamps on request of customers. I would have complained to the postmaster about that clerk. ...."
Michael is right, Sally, as is shown above. The best thing to do is make a copy of the page with especially bold, slightly larger type size of the title, page, chapter and verse, and casually present it in a helpful way ( Smile cutely, do not smirk.) to that clerk the next time you stop by. or mail the copy to the postmaster with a note asking him, or her, to point it out to the clerks.
I assume that the envelope is addressed to you and thus is not likely to be the entry to some possible " ... fraudulently submit an entry for some contest or sweepstakes ...".
Unfortunately this may have to be explained to some clerks as I have found so many people, not just postal clerks, who are essentially functionally illiterate when a sentence contains some convoluted subordinate clause in bureau-speak.
I prefer the mail method as I have limited control of my 'no smirk' muscles.
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Michael, tomiseksj, and Charlie,
Thanks for the opinions and information. The post office employee in question was likely the only employee there other than the delivery man. Most of the post offices around here are tiny and staffed at reduced hours by one person. So the person to complain to would be the person in charge. I will make a copy of the regulations though.
The Post Office in my little town is great. The postal employee in charge has no problem cancelling anything I bring in and frequently goes out of her way to get stuff for me. She has been off on medical leave for a month and I had to educate her replacement, but no worries now.
I just don't stop other places because it tends to be a bigger hassle than it is worth. Not everything I present at the window is addressed to me. I mail out our stamp club newsletters monthly. Frequently they pass through the mailstream uncancelled, and the stamp club member will give it back to me at the meeting so I can get it cancelled the next time I am at the Post Office. I don't have to go into a lengthy explanation if I already know the people behind the counter.
I don't have the time to repeatedly mail the same envelope like Charlie did....that's one of my favorite stories! Plus sometimes I don't even have an entire envelope, just the front that someone wants cancelled.
Long winded response.....thanks for the info, off to print out the regulations....
Sally
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Does anyone know if Canada Post has a similar regulation? Has anyone tried taking their uncancelled mail to a PO in Canada. I think most of the comments are USA related.
Cathy
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I am not sure what the regulations are here in Canada but I have never had a problem in cancelling mail that comes through with no postmark.Currently live in a small town of about 16000 an hour east of Toronto and take in a batch of envelopes to cancel about once a month.The postal clerks let me cancel my own and even let me go to the side of the counter so as not to delay others.They have two different cancels and let me use either one(one is aspecial commemorative cancel)I have had similar experience at three different postal locations in the past 10 years.However I suspect that you might not be so lucky at the franchise postal outlets in drug stores.
Good luck
Harold
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Thanks Bailey for that info. I normally use the Drug Store outlet for my usual postal requirements as it is more convenient. Main PO in downtown Prince George may be a better bet. I'll have to try both and see how it goes.
Cathy
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Sally, everyone has a boss. There is always the regional manager.
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I've never worried about items I receive with the stamps, or some of the stamps cancelled. I'm not a collector of modern material, so the envelopes I get from stamp dealers either get kept whole as a cover, and dropped into my recent cover box, or the stamps get cut off and dropped into my recent stamps on paper box. I don't care if they are cancelled or not, that's the worry of whoever buys my hoard someday.
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06:24:33pm
Too many envelopes drop on my doormat where either no attempt has been made to frank the stamps or the machine has missed some of them. This is especially annoying when dealers have put unusual stamps on the envelopes.
What is the 'morality' of getting these franked at the local Post Office?
Recent reactions to my attempting this:-
Flat refusals - 3
Treated as if I was attempting something criminal - 1
Willingly franked them - 3
Does anybody know if counter clerks are supposed to be forbidden from doing this?
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07:33:43pm
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Don't know the rules in the UK, but in the USA, we often fall victim to the stamps missing cancellation at the post office or distribution centers get destroyed by a black marker. I'd take the no cancel over the marker any day. Also, in the US, one can take the envelope to the counter and have it canceled. The clerk is required to do it on request, provided proper postage was applied to the envelope, and hand it back if so requested.
In your situation, I would seek out the clerks who did it for you in the past, and stay away from the others.
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re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Hi Everyone;
They probably have that rule, that they must cancel if presented with an unfranked letter,
to prevent re-use of the stamps. Here in Bitely Mich. and Brohman Mich., and also Baldwin
Mich. (all small villages) I have never had anyone refuse a request. They also will try to do
a nice neat cancel if they know that you are a stamp collector.
However the job of the route drivers where I live, way out in the woods is very challenging.
So a Christmas time I like to leave homemade cookies or something for my postal worker.
They typically share those goodies with the postal clerks, and they always remember who
gave them the goodies, If that is bribery, then I guilty as charged.
If my road is especially bad and has a big hole thru the ice near my mailbox, I sometimes
call the Bitely PO and tell them to warn the driver to be extra careful. All drivers out here
must have 4x4 vehicles.
Go with the Force....
TuskenRaider
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re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
"no attempt has been made to frank the stamps"
Franking is the use of stamps (or other devices) to pay postage. Potter66 seems to be referring to the cancellation (or lack thereof) of stamps that were used to frank letters sent to him.
I, too, receive many letters with no obvious cancellation and other with total obliteration.
Lars
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re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
I have never had a problem in Post Offices in the UK when asking for cancels during my annual visits.
None of my mail from the UK gets a cancel and I always take a big batch of machins 'on piece', sometimes up to 100 stamps for those dear ladies to work on. Sometimes they let me do the job which means really fine used or SON cancels! I know it may annoy other customers in the queue but it's not my fault (or problem).
The commems are soaked off and re-used. (Guilty as charged but don't feel in the least bit guilty)
Londonbus1....
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re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Thanks for writing all these messages. You're giving me the reminder I needed to get busy and order my new Florida Mailer's Postmark Permit. Now if I can just find a better black ink.
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re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
I have had one postal worker in a small town flat out refuse to cancel a stamp and hand it back to me. She said it was because I could use the postmark date to fraudulently submit an entry for some contest or sweepstakes (I am not making this up). We had a lengthy discussion and she did eventually cancel it, but I left feeling a bit like a criminal. My local post office will cheerfully cancel anything I present. Know your local post office, seek out those who are willing and aware of the rules. I usually save up a bunch so I am not pestering her daily.
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12:57:59pm
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Sally, USPS regulations require postal clerks to hand cancel stamps on request of customers. I would have complained to the postmaster about that clerk.
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08:14:35pm
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
I try to use mini-sheets on mail to my exchange partners. My Canadian friend mentioned that some were arriving without any sort of cancellation, so I now take the mail into our local postal shop, and the people are happy to use a nice date stamp on the sheets, and put the mail into the postal stream.
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12:37:44am
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Yes, it's in the DMM. I posted it here once before. It is a royal pain in the butt to try to find things in the DMM. For those who haven't tried to find something in the DMM, you're lucky. It's no wonder that the clerks don't know what's in it.
Anyway, I'll try to find it again. It is under favor cancels, or something like that.
Login to Like
this post
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
The hand-back policy is in the Postal Operations Manual. Section 231.4a (Hand-back Service) reads, in part:
"(1) When a customer personally presents an addressed or unaddressed envelope, postal card, or other item described in section 231.63 to a Postal Service employee for postmarking, the Postal Service employee must examine the item to ensure that it is clearly intended for philatelic purposes. Bill payments, tax returns, applications, and/or other date-sensitive mail cannot be handed back. Only after careful examination should a philatelic item be postmarked and handed back to the customer/collector.
(2) The envelope, card, or other item does not enter the mailstream. All such materials requesting postmarking must bear uncanceled postage at the applicable First-Class Mail rate... "
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
08 Feb 2015
11:04:41am
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
" ... Sally, USPS regulations require postal clerks to hand cancel stamps on request of customers. I would have complained to the postmaster about that clerk. ...."
Michael is right, Sally, as is shown above. The best thing to do is make a copy of the page with especially bold, slightly larger type size of the title, page, chapter and verse, and casually present it in a helpful way ( Smile cutely, do not smirk.) to that clerk the next time you stop by. or mail the copy to the postmaster with a note asking him, or her, to point it out to the clerks.
I assume that the envelope is addressed to you and thus is not likely to be the entry to some possible " ... fraudulently submit an entry for some contest or sweepstakes ...".
Unfortunately this may have to be explained to some clerks as I have found so many people, not just postal clerks, who are essentially functionally illiterate when a sentence contains some convoluted subordinate clause in bureau-speak.
I prefer the mail method as I have limited control of my 'no smirk' muscles.
Login to Like
this post
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Michael, tomiseksj, and Charlie,
Thanks for the opinions and information. The post office employee in question was likely the only employee there other than the delivery man. Most of the post offices around here are tiny and staffed at reduced hours by one person. So the person to complain to would be the person in charge. I will make a copy of the regulations though.
The Post Office in my little town is great. The postal employee in charge has no problem cancelling anything I bring in and frequently goes out of her way to get stuff for me. She has been off on medical leave for a month and I had to educate her replacement, but no worries now.
I just don't stop other places because it tends to be a bigger hassle than it is worth. Not everything I present at the window is addressed to me. I mail out our stamp club newsletters monthly. Frequently they pass through the mailstream uncancelled, and the stamp club member will give it back to me at the meeting so I can get it cancelled the next time I am at the Post Office. I don't have to go into a lengthy explanation if I already know the people behind the counter.
I don't have the time to repeatedly mail the same envelope like Charlie did....that's one of my favorite stories! Plus sometimes I don't even have an entire envelope, just the front that someone wants cancelled.
Long winded response.....thanks for the info, off to print out the regulations....
Sally
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11:48:27am
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Does anyone know if Canada Post has a similar regulation? Has anyone tried taking their uncancelled mail to a PO in Canada. I think most of the comments are USA related.
Cathy
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12:02:12pm
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
I am not sure what the regulations are here in Canada but I have never had a problem in cancelling mail that comes through with no postmark.Currently live in a small town of about 16000 an hour east of Toronto and take in a batch of envelopes to cancel about once a month.The postal clerks let me cancel my own and even let me go to the side of the counter so as not to delay others.They have two different cancels and let me use either one(one is aspecial commemorative cancel)I have had similar experience at three different postal locations in the past 10 years.However I suspect that you might not be so lucky at the franchise postal outlets in drug stores.
Good luck
Harold
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12:16:42pm
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Thanks Bailey for that info. I normally use the Drug Store outlet for my usual postal requirements as it is more convenient. Main PO in downtown Prince George may be a better bet. I'll have to try both and see how it goes.
Cathy
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05:29:46pm
re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
Sally, everyone has a boss. There is always the regional manager.
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re: Letters arriving with stamps not franked
I've never worried about items I receive with the stamps, or some of the stamps cancelled. I'm not a collector of modern material, so the envelopes I get from stamp dealers either get kept whole as a cover, and dropped into my recent cover box, or the stamps get cut off and dropped into my recent stamps on paper box. I don't care if they are cancelled or not, that's the worry of whoever buys my hoard someday.
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