What we collect!

 

Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps



What we collect!
What we collect!


General Philatelic/Identify This? : Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

 

Author
Postings
Jansimon
Members Picture


collector, seller, MT member

14 Oct 2013
05:49:44am

Approvals
The Scott catalogue mentions "Counterfeits of Nos. 1-8 are plentiful.".
Unfortunately it does not help by pointing out what to look for in order to recognise the real thing.

Does anyone know if the stamps shown below are real or forged?

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop/itsallmadeofpaper/
timbres
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
10:43:17am
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Hi Jansimon,

I have a copy (PDF) of the "Sérane" for fake and forgery" if you can find a copy of this book, in page "53" in "SOUDAN" they give some clue but no image... the also tell to look in the "French Colonies" for the same type of false overprint. I try to copy and paste my PDF but I am not able to do it., I have to leave the house but in few hours I will have time to copy it in this discusion board... if you still need it...

see you later,

Jacques

Like
Login to Like
this post
TheBlueDude
Members Picture


To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

14 Oct 2013
11:13:23am
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

This overprint is listed in the Fournier Album but no details. Here's a link to the page.

http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/FournierAlbum/164.htm

Ross

Like
Login to Like
this post
rrraphy
Members Picture


Retired Consultant APS#186030

14 Oct 2013
03:54:57pm

Approvals
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Image Not FoundI have the same problem, but at least I can identify the blatant fakes..here the two Inverted O/P. In the second photo, there is a mix of real and counterfeit, by my opinion, and I look at the spacing between letters (U and D in particular) and the spacing between arabic and latin characters, as well as the alignment of the two lines. My guess; my #4 and #5 are fakes, and the others are probably genuine (#2 is doubtful).
Image Not Found
But there are really good fakes as well!
rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
timbres
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
04:25:10pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Jansimon, can you read easely the french language ?? if so I will copy the "Sérane" text about the SUDAN, if not I can try to translate....

Jacques

Like
Login to Like
this post
timbres
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
04:39:10pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

As I understand the "SÉRANE" explanation, it's by comparing the stamps.... that you can see the differences,the main thing said in this book is that the false overprint have been made at GENEVA on original used stamps with Egypt cancellation....

In French, we read:

"SOUDAN ÉGYPTIEN
1897. Surchargés SOUDAN nos. 1 à 8. Fausses surcharges : comparaison nécessaire. Toute la série existe faussement surchargée à Genève sur timbres originaux oblitérés d’Égypte."

hope it's help a little....

Jacques

Like
Login to Like
this post
Jansimon
Members Picture


collector, seller, MT member

14 Oct 2013
05:50:34pm

Approvals
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Hi Jacques,
Merci beaucoup! I understand French enough to read it. Speaking is more difficult. I suppose the real challenge with these overprints is finding real ones that can be used as a benchmark...

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop/itsallmadeofpaper/
meostamps
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
06:01:19pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Jan and all...Here is an image of a good one auction # 3933, to compare to.

http://stampauctionnetwork.com/rs/rs101157.cfm


Mike in NC / meostamps

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/meostamps
meostamps
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
06:06:22pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

This stampboard posting has a page from an old catalogue with info on the overprint

http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12129&whichpage=2


Mike in NC / meostamps

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/meostamps
khj
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
11:32:47pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

This is a set that remains on my list of "things to look into later".

Several different fakes exist. The fakes outnumber the genuine, but as with the Persian stamps, you can usually expect a mix of genuine and fakes in the same batch (my opinion, no statistical evidence to back it up).

You have to be little careful when comparing to a known genuine stamp. You might be able to confirm it is genuine, but just because it doesn't look exactly the same doesn't mean it is a fake. Genuine overprints come in 6 types, and there is more than one setting, not to mention varieties that have been confirmed as genuine. If you really want to get into it (I wish I had the time and the health), you might want to consider the Sudan Study Group.

Happy k

Like
Login to Like
this post
khj
Members Picture


14 Oct 2013
11:44:32pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

On Ralph's stamps, I agree #4 and #5 are fakes, in addition to the 2 inverted overprints. I would say #1 is likely a fake as well (or maybe a genuine type/variety I am unaware of), and #2 looks suspicious. On those 2 stamps (and on cancelled stamps in general), you can check to see if the cancel is over or beneath the overprint. My non-expert opinion, as I haven't really studied these overprint/fake history in detail.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Jansimon
Members Picture


collector, seller, MT member

15 Oct 2013
03:57:39am

Approvals
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Ralph's #2 has a cancel "...OUM" - that might be KHARTOUM in the Sudan. I think this is very difficult and confusing.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop/itsallmadeofpaper/
rrraphy
Members Picture


Retired Consultant APS#186030

15 Oct 2013
12:54:27pm

Approvals
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Thanks Kim:
Not sure about #2...but also not sure about #1, since the cancellation is on top of the O/P..so I still think "genuine"...but I do hear you!
#3 seems to be the only clearly genuine one...and I happen to have 2 samples, with the second one clearly a counterfeit, as the o/p sit visibly on top of the cancellation...I just did not post a picture, but can if anyone is intrigued.
I have been looking for the 1-8 Sudan stamps for a while, but won't pay the price without a certificate, and most of what I see at auction and on the internet is just worth nothing like the asking prices (unless you specialize in counterfeit).

This brought me back to some Lebanon stamps I labeled as fakes, but now I think it may be a paper variety, post world war II, but there is no mention of it in my sources... I will start a new thread on the topic, and would appreciate any comments.
Rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
youpiao
Members Picture


22 Mar 2016
01:43:45pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Since the fake overprints are applied to previously cancelled stamps, I wonder: Are any of the affordably-priced USB microscopes of high enough resolution to be able to discern if the overprint ink lies atop the cancellation ink?

Ted
Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG. Zoom-Boing. Z'nourrwringmm"
stampchi

20 May 2016
08:48:42pm
re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

I would say that the 1st 13 stamps are genuine. They are reasonably common and there are several settings. The postmarks, when reasonably clear, give a good indication. They are listed in standard catalogues.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
14 Oct 2013
05:49:44am

Approvals

The Scott catalogue mentions "Counterfeits of Nos. 1-8 are plentiful.".
Unfortunately it does not help by pointing out what to look for in order to recognise the real thing.

Does anyone know if the stamps shown below are real or forged?

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
timbres

14 Oct 2013
10:43:17am

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Hi Jansimon,

I have a copy (PDF) of the "Sérane" for fake and forgery" if you can find a copy of this book, in page "53" in "SOUDAN" they give some clue but no image... the also tell to look in the "French Colonies" for the same type of false overprint. I try to copy and paste my PDF but I am not able to do it., I have to leave the house but in few hours I will have time to copy it in this discusion board... if you still need it...

see you later,

Jacques

Like
Login to Like
this post

To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
14 Oct 2013
11:13:23am

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

This overprint is listed in the Fournier Album but no details. Here's a link to the page.

http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/FournierAlbum/164.htm

Ross

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
14 Oct 2013
03:54:57pm

Approvals

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Image Not FoundI have the same problem, but at least I can identify the blatant fakes..here the two Inverted O/P. In the second photo, there is a mix of real and counterfeit, by my opinion, and I look at the spacing between letters (U and D in particular) and the spacing between arabic and latin characters, as well as the alignment of the two lines. My guess; my #4 and #5 are fakes, and the others are probably genuine (#2 is doubtful).
Image Not Found
But there are really good fakes as well!
rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
timbres

14 Oct 2013
04:25:10pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Jansimon, can you read easely the french language ?? if so I will copy the "Sérane" text about the SUDAN, if not I can try to translate....

Jacques

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
timbres

14 Oct 2013
04:39:10pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

As I understand the "SÉRANE" explanation, it's by comparing the stamps.... that you can see the differences,the main thing said in this book is that the false overprint have been made at GENEVA on original used stamps with Egypt cancellation....

In French, we read:

"SOUDAN ÉGYPTIEN
1897. Surchargés SOUDAN nos. 1 à 8. Fausses surcharges : comparaison nécessaire. Toute la série existe faussement surchargée à Genève sur timbres originaux oblitérés d’Égypte."

hope it's help a little....

Jacques

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
14 Oct 2013
05:50:34pm

Approvals

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Hi Jacques,
Merci beaucoup! I understand French enough to read it. Speaking is more difficult. I suppose the real challenge with these overprints is finding real ones that can be used as a benchmark...

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
meostamps

14 Oct 2013
06:01:19pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Jan and all...Here is an image of a good one auction # 3933, to compare to.

http://stampauctionnetwork.com/rs/rs101157.cfm


Mike in NC / meostamps

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
meostamps

14 Oct 2013
06:06:22pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

This stampboard posting has a page from an old catalogue with info on the overprint

http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12129&whichpage=2


Mike in NC / meostamps

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
khj

14 Oct 2013
11:32:47pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

This is a set that remains on my list of "things to look into later".

Several different fakes exist. The fakes outnumber the genuine, but as with the Persian stamps, you can usually expect a mix of genuine and fakes in the same batch (my opinion, no statistical evidence to back it up).

You have to be little careful when comparing to a known genuine stamp. You might be able to confirm it is genuine, but just because it doesn't look exactly the same doesn't mean it is a fake. Genuine overprints come in 6 types, and there is more than one setting, not to mention varieties that have been confirmed as genuine. If you really want to get into it (I wish I had the time and the health), you might want to consider the Sudan Study Group.

Happy k

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

14 Oct 2013
11:44:32pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

On Ralph's stamps, I agree #4 and #5 are fakes, in addition to the 2 inverted overprints. I would say #1 is likely a fake as well (or maybe a genuine type/variety I am unaware of), and #2 looks suspicious. On those 2 stamps (and on cancelled stamps in general), you can check to see if the cancel is over or beneath the overprint. My non-expert opinion, as I haven't really studied these overprint/fake history in detail.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
15 Oct 2013
03:57:39am

Approvals

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Ralph's #2 has a cancel "...OUM" - that might be KHARTOUM in the Sudan. I think this is very difficult and confusing.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
15 Oct 2013
12:54:27pm

Approvals

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Thanks Kim:
Not sure about #2...but also not sure about #1, since the cancellation is on top of the O/P..so I still think "genuine"...but I do hear you!
#3 seems to be the only clearly genuine one...and I happen to have 2 samples, with the second one clearly a counterfeit, as the o/p sit visibly on top of the cancellation...I just did not post a picture, but can if anyone is intrigued.
I have been looking for the 1-8 Sudan stamps for a while, but won't pay the price without a certificate, and most of what I see at auction and on the internet is just worth nothing like the asking prices (unless you specialize in counterfeit).

This brought me back to some Lebanon stamps I labeled as fakes, but now I think it may be a paper variety, post world war II, but there is no mention of it in my sources... I will start a new thread on the topic, and would appreciate any comments.
Rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
youpiao

22 Mar 2016
01:43:45pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

Since the fake overprints are applied to previously cancelled stamps, I wonder: Are any of the affordably-priced USB microscopes of high enough resolution to be able to discern if the overprint ink lies atop the cancellation ink?

Ted
Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG. Zoom-Boing. Z'nourrwringmm"
stampchi

20 May 2016
08:48:42pm

re: Sudan overprint of Egyptian stamps: real or fake

I would say that the 1st 13 stamps are genuine. They are reasonably common and there are several settings. The postmarks, when reasonably clear, give a good indication. They are listed in standard catalogues.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

Contact Webmaster | Visitors Online | Unsubscribe Emails | Facebook


User Agreement

Copyright © 2024 Stamporama.com